Airport patdown enrages diplomat

Airport patdown enrages diplomat

This is a discussion on Airport patdown enrages diplomat within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Yes, it is ridiculous. But, by crikey, if I have to do it, she does too. http://cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2010...r.airport.WAPT...

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Thread: Airport patdown enrages diplomat

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    Airport patdown enrages diplomat

    Yes, it is ridiculous. But, by crikey, if I have to do it, she does too.
    http://cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2010...r.airport.WAPT
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    A congressman saying common sense at some point should prevail LOL,There is no such thing as common sense,they legislated common sense away
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    I fly on an AMERICAN Diplomatic passport all the friggin' time. And guess what? I get patted down here in Colombia, and I get patted down in the United States. Diplomatic status does NOT allow you to bypass standard security measures...

    Having said that - Ambassadors usually get special treatment, and it is pretty silly to "single out" someone that is clearly identified as an Ambassador for additional screening...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    She's welcome to join the unemployment line with me if getting patted down bothers her that much.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

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    I watched a televised news conference with both Holder and Napolitano discussing a wide range of issues, but this incident was repeatedly brought up by the reporters.

    I thought both officials were groping around, as also a state dept press spokesperson in another time slot, and were being quite evasive. It was more like they had no idea what the rules were than that they had a secret to hide.

    State seemed to think it was a DHS issue. It isn't. It is a matter of whatever protocols and agreements and treaties there are which govern our treatment of Diplomats and State should not be sloughing off its obligations to insure proper treatment of Diplomats onto DHS with nothing more than the line that they have their role and their rules. That way of thinking will bring trouble to our Diplomats sure as the sun rises.

    I suppose the ball is in India's court now, and I hope they don't do something similarly ridiculous to our folks serving in India.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    I fly on an AMERICAN Diplomatic passport all the friggin' time. And guess what? I get patted down here in Colombia, and I get patted down in the United States. Diplomatic status does NOT allow you to bypass standard security measures...

    Having said that - Ambassadors usually get special treatment, and it is pretty silly to "single out" someone that is clearly identified as an Ambassador for additional screening...
    It is more than silly. It is wrong. It reminds me of the incident a year or two back in which Houston police followed a Diplomat right into a consulate parking lot and if memory serves held the man at gun point. There are things that just should not be done--not because they are wrong but because they invite similar action against our diplomatic personnel. In short, the act is dumb.

    If we think an ambassador can't be trusted then we should not let him/her in the country in the first place; or boot him/her out.

    And frankly, if a Diplomat did bring a bomb on board, and that could be proven, or even if they attempted to do so, that would be a formal act of war.

    This is more of TSA nonsense and poor poor poor training of their officers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    I fly on an AMERICAN Diplomatic passport all the friggin' time. And guess what? I get patted down here in Colombia, and I get patted down in the United States. Diplomatic status does NOT allow you to bypass standard security measures...

    Having said that - Ambassadors usually get special treatment, and it is pretty silly to "single out" someone that is clearly identified as an Ambassador for additional screening...
    Sorry for small thread hijack, BUT I think it's great that ANYBODY with a diplomatic passport uses the word "friggin" and probably it's origin word.
    Go OPFOR!!!!
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    Well, let me state again that being an accredited Diplomat, even with full "immunity," does not exempt you from airport screening. If you are carrying a diplomatic pouch, then THAT (under most circumstances) is protected to a large extent, but just being a diplomat (even an Ambassador) doesn't get you out normal security procedures at airports. Like I said, I've been an accredited diplomat to several countries over the last few years, and always get screened like everyone else. I do get to use the "diplomat" line at customs, though.

    That said, again...this was dumb, and does put a spotlight on how stupid some folks can be. And yes, it does have possible repercussions for US diplomats overseas, as EVERYTHING in diplomatic relations is based on reciprocity.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fish View Post
    Sorry for small thread hijack, BUT I think it's great that ANYBODY with a diplomatic passport uses the word "friggin" and probably it's origin word.
    Go OPFOR!!!!
    They haven't beaten the grunt out of me yet. :)

    And I'm in the "gun totin', knuckle draggin'" part of the State Department - a large percentage of us are former military/cop/both, and we speak (and curse) appropriately. Just (hopefully) not in front of the wrong folks.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    They haven't beaten the grunt out of me yet. :)

    And I'm in the "gun totin', knuckle draggin'" part of the State Department - a large percentage of us are former military/cop/both, and we speak (and curse) appropriately. Just (hopefully) not in front of the wrong folks.
    Yes, knowing your audience is a good thing. I work with a lot of military folks, the conversations that go on in the test trailer wouldn't last very long in corporate world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    And yes, it does have possible repercussions for US diplomats overseas, as EVERYTHING in diplomatic relations is based on reciprocity.
    This is the big problem with what was done and with State trying to pretend it is a DHS issue and they have nothing to say on the matter.

    One reporter would have none of that line of reasoning and pointed out that they (State) routinely inform and advise LE departments of their special obligations and protocols when dealing with diplomats; and then the reporter wanted to know why DHS wasn't getting the same training.

    Both officials side stepped the question.

    As OPFOR points out, the big deal is the potential for repercussions and retaliation. I'd add the potential for some third country not involved to attempt to see how far they can push.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    They haven't beaten the grunt out of me yet. :)

    And I'm in the "gun totin', knuckle draggin'" part of the State Department - a large percentage of us are former military/cop/both, and we speak (and curse) appropriately. Just (hopefully) not in front of the wrong folks.
    I'm sure you always behave "well" at all cocktail parties!!!!!
    " Keep On Packin' On The Bimah"

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    The thing is, Hopyard, is that it IS a DHS/TSA issue. We (State) do not get special treatment as a matter of international law regarding security screening at the airport. State can't ORDER TSA not to screen diplomats; it's not a part of the "immunities" granted. We can strongly encourage them to assist senior-level folks (like the Ambassador from the second most populous country in the world) in any way possible, and to NOT select them for additional screening, but we can't MAKE them...

    Glad I won't be flying through India any time soon, though...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    I watched a documentary on the DSS. Some very capable folks.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    The thing is, Hopyard, is that it IS a DHS/TSA issue. We (State) do not get special treatment as a matter of international law regarding security screening at the airport. State can't ORDER TSA not to screen diplomats; it's not a part of the "immunities" granted. We can strongly encourage them to assist senior-level folks (like the Ambassador from the second most populous country in the world) in any way possible, and to NOT select them for additional screening, but we can't MAKE them...

    Glad I won't be flying through India any time soon, though...
    No, it is a Dept of State issue.

    http://www.hindu.com/2010/12/11/stor...1156291400.htm


    "the United States on Friday promised to ensure that such incidents did not recur." "According to the Indian Embassy here, the State Department has reached out to Ms. Shankar and regretted the incident"

    “The U.S. State Department has reached out to the Ambassador and has regretted what happened. The Embassy is in touch with the State Department on this issue,”



    In short, there was something to apologize for, and it fell on the State Department to make the apology.

    Now, how could our Dept. of State "ensure that such incidents did not occur" in the future, if your assertion that it is a DHS issue and a matter of law (presumably in your view set in cement) is correct. It isn't.

    What I do know is that the word "immunity" applies to things which are matters of "law" unless there are international agreements or binational agreements to the contrary. DHS, much as some many wish, and much as they may sometimes appear, is not a law unto itself isolated from the rest of our government.

    Perhaps you are not receiving the courtesies which should be extended to you, or perhaps there are different levels of diplomatic passports with different levels of immunities and privilege, I do not know one way or the other.

    As for this comment, " State can't ORDER TSA not to screen diplomats," that is ridiculous. These sorts of issues get sorted out at the Cabinet level, and when there is disagreement the prez takes the final word. More likely, there will be (and has been) prior agreement on this matter and this is just an incident in which a low level employee messed up. Just as there are some cops who have no idea that they should reciprocate certain out of state licenses, there are some TSA employees who have never heard the word, "diplomat" and have no clue what that means, or how it should affect there conduct when they encounter one.

    Let's all be glad that this incident happened with India, which is unlikely to retaliate in a malicious way, and not with perhaps one of the former Soviet Republics or some 4th world country which wouldn't hesitate to hold an Ambassador just to poke our nose.

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