Women in combat

This is a discussion on Women in combat within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; BikerRN - the problem with that (post #8) is that it will be more casualties period, not just women. If my son were killed because ...

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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array usmc3169's Avatar
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    BikerRN - the problem with that (post #8) is that it will be more casualties period, not just women. If my son were killed because some one was in the unit that physically couldnt keep up.... I would be a pretty irate tax payer.

    If you look at Israel keep in mind what kind of fight its military is primed for - its for all intents and purposes the exact same thing we are doing in Iraq right now - its not an environment that the extra physical strength and stamina are necessities, and they fight in the same places that they bunk - all the things that allow women to fight with distinction alongside men in Iraq allow women to serve on front line duty in Israel..... that kind of army would be a short sighted mistake with America's armed forces.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array usmc3169's Avatar
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    +1 to what Hopyard said in post #15, I will add that the United States military is NOT the place for social experimentation.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

  4. #18
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    I will disagree with many here.

    It's not about social expirmentation but rather, because we have not segmented society and kept people in their proper place that we should allow equal opportunity for all to serve. If that means that more die, so be it.

    Biker

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    I will disagree with many here.

    It's not about social expirmentation but rather, because we have not segmented society and kept people in their proper place that we should allow equal opportunity for all to serve. If that means that more die, so be it.

    Biker
    I think I know where you are coming from here, and in that regard, I totally agree. It seems as a matter of equality, we have allowed in many repects placed the wrong people into the wrong positions.
    In time we will pay the price.

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array usmc3169's Avatar
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    BikerRN, I see what you are saying - suffice to say I hear ya, and am glad I am no longer serving in the military.

    Semper Fi.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    I'm an equal opportunity {language workaround removed}.

    If women want the full benefits of American society, let them serve and die just like the men. If that means more women die in combat, so be it. I do not put anyone on a pedestal because of their gender or race. Logisticly this would be a nightmare, when first started, but I'm sure it could be overcome in time. Look at the integration of the troops under Truman. It has been accomplished, after some initial growing pains. Other countries seem to have integrated men and women in to combat roles very well, Israel being one example. Perhaps it's time to take a look at how other nations have arrived at their solutions and learn from what they have discovered.

    Biker
    I can go along with this. but the standard needs to change also. everyone passes the same tests for entry and advancement.
    equal should really mean equal and not superficial equal at best.
    Last edited by rstickle; January 16th, 2011 at 05:59 PM. Reason: Language, be careful what you quote
    "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -1792, James Madison
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  8. #22
    Senior Member Array sigs's Avatar
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    No, no, no. I've seen nothing presented from this "Diversity" panel that speaks to increased readiness. It's all about opportunities for advancement, etc., etc. I can't imagine much worse than a little girls mother blown apart by an IED. It's bad enough it happens to someone's daddy. But, like it or not, men and women have different roles in society and in the family. We just keep messing that up and I challenge anyone to show me how we are better off with the changes wrought over the past 40-50 years. There is a reason for the precepts set out by God. And very good reasons societies have protected women and children. Until now.

  9. #23
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigs View Post
    No, no, no. I've seen nothing presented from this "Diversity" panel that speaks to increased readiness. It's all about opportunities for advancement, etc., etc. I can't imagine much worse than a little girls mother blown apart by an IED. It's bad enough it happens to someone's daddy. But, like it or not, men and women have different roles in society and in the family. We just keep messing that up and I challenge anyone to show me how we are better off with the changes wrought over the past 40-50 years. There is a reason for the precepts set out by God. And very good reasons societies have protected women and children. Until now.
    I don't happen to think we are better off with this equality and diversity.
    If you read my post you should be able to glean that. Equality means exactly that, same test, same standards, same risk.

    Biker

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Where we screw up is by lowering the standard so the weaker links can become part of the chain. This is what equality really has become known to initiate.

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array usmc3169's Avatar
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    Glockman - AGREED!!!!!!!!!!!
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Heres my feelings,in static positions,such as perimeter guards etc.let them fight,or if the USA is ever attacked on our soil and we need everybody that can shoot to repel an invasion,
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  13. #27
    Distinguished Member Array mr.stuart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Why not send our criminals to the front lines to die instead of our best and brightest? If these gangbangers think they are so tough and want to kill people, drop them in a combat zone and let them fight their way home as restitution for their crimes.
    Yes! I often mention this to my wife.Why send young people that have a possible future?We have prisons full of real killers,no training needed.Make a deal with them.Who knows,it might benefit everyone involved.
    Pain is the best teacher,but nobody wants to go to his class.


    When the past smothers the present, there is only desperation. When the future absorbs the present, life stands still. In either case a decision must be made because you only live now and you are only what you are now.

  14. #28
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    Having served with women in the military I'll say that this idea is crap. The pregnancy rate of women DEPLOYED on ships is in the neighborhood of 80%. There are problems with prostitution and jealousy. These things never make it to the press.

    I have served in CONUS with women and can say that in technical fields they can be an asset. I have served with some great women.

    Front line, away from home, stress filled situations are bad enough. Add in the fact that most military folks are in their teens or twenties and you create an atmosphere of extreme sexual tension and/or rivalry. The front lines are not the place for social experimentation.
    Last edited by atctimmy; January 16th, 2011 at 09:41 PM.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  15. #29
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    @ Biker. The problem with the let them die theory is that usually a buddy or two will die trying to save them.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    Having served with women in the military I'll say that this idea is crap. The pregnancy rate of women DEPLOYED on ships is in the neighborhood of 80%. There are problems with prostitution and jealousy. These things never make it to the press.

    I have served in CONUS with women and can say that in a technical fields they can be an asset. I have served with some great women.
    Having spent 20+ years in the Army I can honestly say in most cases the women are much like the men, both in CONUS and OCONUS, you have good and bad in both sexes.

    Front line, away from home, stress filled situations are bad enough. Add in the fact that most military folks are in their teens or twenties and you create an atmosphere of extreme sexual tension and/or rivalry. The front lines are not the place for social experimentation.
    The problem is in todays war(s) the front line is very ill defined. I think women should be able to serve in just about any job. I think the best thing would be just a few "keep out" MOS groups like 11 and 18 series might be a better way to prohibit, rather than saying "combat" since it seems like that door has already been opened...... Unless you are not going to deploy females out of the US.
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

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