Women in combat - Page 5

Women in combat

This is a discussion on Women in combat within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Certain MOS could be integrated. FA would seem to be the first that would make sense. Infantry and Armor would need to be the last ...

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Thread: Women in combat

  1. #61
    Member Array Bkrazy's Avatar
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    Certain MOS could be integrated. FA would seem to be the first that would make sense. Infantry and Armor would need to be the last to be integrated and there would have to be extensive stateside research monitored by more than a command that wants to see "progress". I am an Infantryman, but I will comment on Armor first.
    A tank crew has 4 people. A Tank Commander, a Gunner, a Driver, and a Loader. These 4 individuals live on this tank for the duration of their mission. This is in an optimal tank mission. Currently Tankers are being used as Infantry as our ROE has changed in Iraq and tanks have trouble getting around Afghanistan. Infantryman as already been stated have to "hump" their gear around the mountains of Afg. As has already been stated there are some men who cannot accomplish this task and while I will admit there are women who could, how many of the ones who cant will be pushed into these Plts?
    Mechanized Infantry has the same problems as Armor in the Bradley Crew lives on their vehicle. I have not been to Afg. yet so my speculation may be incorrect, although it has come from first hand accounts of my buddies who have been/ are there. The small COPs in Afg. are manned by PLT sized elements with attachments. Some of the bigger ones may have a CO size. It is not until you get to the large Airbases that you find the nice living conditions that you see in Iraq or on TV. On these small outposts with such few people I would believe sexual tension and jealousy or even just plain hate (Soldiers mad that female gets special latrine or shower) would hinder the small group cohesion.
    As stated above, long intense field problems should be conducted with integrated Units. There should be psychiatric personnel as well as medical personnel. These specialized personnel should not be told what the exercise is supposed to accomplish. The Unit should also experience all of the logistical and emotional complications that could be found in a real deployment scenario. This exercise should be well controlled to include having Soldiers have contact with the outside world. Take a Unit to the field long enough and relationships will fail, real life will happen (family deaths, missed births). I believe a three month exercise of this nature will show the emotional toll that Soldiers would face. There will be sex, there will be jealousy between Soldiers. The only thing that couldnt be simulated is actual death and its affect on morale.
    I will not say women shouldnt eventually stand next to me in a fox hole. I just think we should take a real look at what we are doing before we do it.

    (I intentionally left out strength disparity as well as the considered "logistics" as they have already been covered.
    Please take my posts with a grain of salt. I am frequently sleep deprived and always just on this side of "Krazy".

    When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle. Edmund Burke


  2. #62
    Member Array DwnRangeKing's Avatar
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    A woman should not be assigned to a combat unit unless she can pass APFT using the male standards.
    Molon Labe

  3. #63
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    If they are going to do it there should be one test. If you pass your in regardless of sex. Now I would have no problem with different tests or requirements for the different jobs but not for different sex's.

    Michael

  4. #64
    Senior Member Array Beans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    If they are going to do it there should be one test. If you pass your in regardless of sex. Now I would have no problem with different tests or requirements for the different jobs but not for different sex's.

    Michael
    When I was in the USMC, women were not allowed in combat units 1961-1971.

    When I became a LEO we had 3 women on our force. a Matron/admin office and two patrol officers. On the patrol officers #1 Who I will name, Billy Ross, I would go with, anywhere, anytime, for anything. She had no back down in her and would have your back regardless of what you were facing. AND she was capable.

    #2---- I wouldn't take to a marshmellow fight.

    Women in combat. my take-- it depends on the woman.

  5. #65
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    ^^^
    Likewise in the Air Force. My shop had the first woman in our specialty, in acft maintenance. She worked out fine, took the expected jabs and mild harrassment in stride (just as we all poked fun and harrassed each other), and carried her share of the load, saying it was easier to be one of the guys than the "girl" in the shop. Others wanted to be the "girl" and expected to be treated as such, expecting help in lifting the heavy tool boxes and test equipment. They didn't work out so well. In general, they got out or changed career fields.

    Our job requirements stated that each person had to do the job. There were no clauses saying, "except females."
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  6. #66
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    Something nobody has brought up is the problem with women's knees. Because a woman's hips are made for child bearing the legs are not attached at the same angle as a mans. This is not a joke. The angle is about 5% different than a mans. The difference in the angle causes about three times as much stress on a woman's knees. Female athletes blow knees all the time and almost 100% of female athletes experiences knee problems at one point or another. Add in long marches and the load of a combat pack and it is a recipe for disaster. A woman's body will simply break down over time under a heavy load.

    Google the leg angle thing if you want to learn more. It's pretty interesting.
    I havenít heard any of the journalists who volunteered to be waterboarded asking to have their fingernails wrenched out with pliers, or electrodes attached to their genitals.

  7. #67
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    Wait another 7 - 10 years the battlefield dynamics are evolving quickly.

    This VID is a must see if you've not seen it yet and...keep in mind that there are already more advanced protos than what is shown here.


  8. #68
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    Want.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  9. #69
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    When I was in the Marine the physical requirements weren't exactly the same for men and women. the men had to do pull ups while the women just pulled up and stayed there. I don't remember what they actually called it b/c there were not any women in my unit. But here is one reason why I don't agree with women in combat. When I was on the 31st MEU my platoon was the T.R.A.P team (Tactical Recovery of Aircraft and/or Personnel) which basically means, when a pilot went down/ejected we would load up on helos and fly out there and essentially rescue the downed pilot(s) and destroy sensitive material if needed. In one of the 2 T.R.A.P schools we went to they switched the downed pilot from a male to a female for a few of the training missions to see how the teams reacted. My platoons SOP was when a team found the pilot all remaining teams would move to that position and take up 360 security, when that was established there was a designated team that would take over responsibility for the pilot. (they usually had a folding stretcher and combat aides men) then the corpsman would accompany that team and the platoon would move to the nearest LZ. When they had the pilot we found a female, it was thought that the marines would become over protective and not want to relieve their possession of the female pilot. The instructors told us stories of other platoons that had that problem and it caused much confusion between the teams and the command element. we had one team that had that problem but luckily the junior Marine had immediate obedience to orders and succumbed to the team leader in charge of the casevac team. I think that if women were incorporated into infantry units this could be a real problem. A women gets wounded and males won't want to leave her side. It could cause problems in the field. Anyways, thats just one problem that comes to mind for me.

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