Women in combat

This is a discussion on Women in combat within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/15...t-report-says/ This has been discussed many times. I'm all for it. Opinions?...

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Thread: Women in combat

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Luis50's Avatar
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    Women in combat

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/15...t-report-says/

    This has been discussed many times. I'm all for it. Opinions?
    Last edited by Luis50; January 16th, 2011 at 05:25 PM.
    Luis

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    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    It'll be interesting to see how long this thread lasts.......................personally I think anyone who wants to fight for our country that isnt a felon should be able too. Woman, man, gay, straight, you wanna serve, go ahead and be my guest.
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    It'll be interesting to see how long this thread lasts.......................personally I think anyone who wants to fight for our country that isnt a felon should be able too. Woman, man, gay, straight, you wanna serve, go ahead and be my guest.
    +1 Absolutely.
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    Senior Member Array usmc3169's Avatar
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    Absolutely not, here is why. Much of this idea is seeming to be a good idea based on the Iraq conflict - in this battle troops are transported around to every battlefield in humvees or other mechanical conveyances, they are out of the wire for short duration ops and live in area's that are dual gender freindly. Women have shown themselves very capable of fighting in this environment. But this environment is not representative of what future wars will be fought in. Women are undeniably physically weaker than men, the weakest men in both of my police academies were able to bench press, squat or military press more weight by a significant amount than the strongest women. When you put those front line infantry troops into Afghanistan or Korean war type fights where you are talking 80 pounds of gear, no vehicles (yes humping it) in the mountains for months at a time, foot mobile and living in holes inthe ground - the physical strength disparity is going to be a huge problem. Going beyond physical strength issues you also add in the added logistics needed to accomidate two sexes, for instance a full time female medic (not just for combat) feminine pruducts in the supply line, pregnancy problems with staffing (pretty important when overseas), sexual tension in a unit that has to be extremely tight knit..... the list goes on.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    I'm not saying they should'nt....or can't. but it'd be a little diffrent.
    Overall, I think, they'd do as good a job if they earned it like the rest of us.

    Having said that, I'm a little older fashioned in that I hold women in a higher regard.....not chauvnestic, just me being over-protective (I'm an older brother and a father<and grandfather> of girls......I'm also active duty). The trauma of war is something I'd want to spare from women. That's just me. If I served side-by-side with a woman in combat because she wanted it, then so be it.

    usmc3169 also hit on a few very valid points as well and 'changes' like this would affect combat readiness.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Back in 1986 there was an exercise conducted at the k ranges outside of Camp Geiger, a Marine base to test the females against the males in a force on force type war game in which humping gear over extended distances, negotiating obstacles and such were part of the things they had to do to simulate combat enviroments we were familar with. Kind of a Grenada meets Vietnam. This exercise came about because of the debate at the time. Patricia Schroder, a well known congress woman and femanist was responsible for the exercise happening.

    5 days into the 7 day exercise it was stopped do to physical injuries substained by the female group such as sprains and pulled muscles among other things that reduced their numbers to point of not making it feasible for them.

    However, it was determined that they posessed certain attributes that made them highly capable as pilots of fighter jets or equipment operators in combat

    Physically, their bodies just could not endure the punishiment of the rigors of combat and fighting. There is a reason the military has two different sets of physical qualifications for men and woman.

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    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldshellback View Post
    usmc3169 also hit on a few very valid points as well and 'changes' like this would affect combat readiness.
    Yep, this was the same argument made when Pres. Truman announced he was intergrading America's Armed Services.
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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    I'm an equal opportunity person.

    If women want the full benefits of American society, let them serve and die just like the men. If that means more women die in combat, so be it. I do not put anyone on a pedestal because of their gender or race. Logisticly this would be a nightmare, when first started, but I'm sure it could be overcome in time. Look at the integration of the troops under Truman. It has been accomplished, after some initial growing pains. Other countries seem to have integrated men and women in to combat roles very well, Israel being one example. Perhaps it's time to take a look at how other nations have arrived at their solutions and learn from what they have discovered.

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    Last edited by rstickle; January 16th, 2011 at 05:57 PM. Reason: Language workaround

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    WASHINGTON – Women, who make up some 14 percent of the armed forces, should finally be permitted to serve fully in front-line combat units, a military advisory panel says.
    I guess I'm a bit too old school to buy this. Physical limitations, and issues of unit cohesion are argueable reasons but basically I just don't want to turn on the TV news and see or hear about young girls being killed or maimed and coming home in body bags. I just don't. Military service for women is fine but not front line combat. My opinion.

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    +1 I agree completely!
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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Why not send our criminals to the front lines to die instead of our best and brightest? If these gangbangers think they are so tough and want to kill people, drop them in a combat zone and let them fight their way home as restitution for their crimes.

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    I would find it many times more depressing and upsetting picking up pieces of women than men.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
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    kpw
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    I'm all for women taking an equal role in combat as men...as long as they can meet the same physical requirements. Combat is a lousy place to start pushing politically correct crap when lives may be on the line. If a woman can haul a 200 pound wounded buddy to safety, carry her fair share of gear as far and as long as needed and meet the other requirements necessary, then she deserves her spot. If not, there are plenty of other jobs available in the military for a dedicated soldier, male or female.
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    kpw
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Why not send our criminals to the front lines to die instead of our best and brightest? If these gangbangers think they are so tough and want to kill people, drop them in a combat zone and let them fight their way home as restitution for their crimes.
    Worked in The Dirty Dozen!

    Actually, it ain't a bad idea for some of them. I had a buddy I grew up with that was always in trouble for stupid stuff. A judge gave him a choice, jail or Marines. He signed up for the Marines and it changed him for the better. 25 years later and he'll tell you it's the best thing that ever happened to him. I do remember that they almost didn't take him because of his juvie record. Nothing real serious on it but he had to have some waiver and a letter from the judge. I'm glad they took him because I don't know what would have come of him if they hadn't.
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    I think it would be a bad move. I had to call our fire department the other day about a non-emergency situation with a gas tank. The guys who showed up were huge and strong; one of them could have picked me up in one arm and my wife in the other and carried us both out of harms way.

    I've seen 'petitie' women making traffic stops but seldom without obvious male backup. I've never seen a male backed up by a female officer-- though I know that happens with increasing frequency these days.

    Men and women are different, and our roles in life have been quite different until only very recently, 40-50 years at most. My wife doesn't ask me to iron blouses and shirts, and I don't ask her to get out the masonry drill and replace a dryer vent, or get on a ladder and change some wiring around, or crawl under a sink and change a faucet.

    I think that even in the Israeli army where women are routinely conscripted, they are not given direct combat roles. Doing so could diminish effectiveness and prove deadly to others if it gets to H2H where size and strength count. I've known some smaller men who were incredibly strong, but few women who would have dedicated themselves to the rigorous weight and endurance training necessary to match that---and I wouldn't want them to have to do it.

    Yup, old fashioned on this one.

    I'm all for equality of job opportunity, when the job can be done. I don't think women can do a ground combat job as well as men.

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