Concerning LEOSA

Concerning LEOSA

This is a discussion on Concerning LEOSA within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; If I wanted to go to California, under LEOSA as an LE, traveling in the off duty capacity, would I be in line to carry ...

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Thread: Concerning LEOSA

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Concerning LEOSA

    If I wanted to go to California, under LEOSA as an LE, traveling in the off duty capacity, would I be in line to carry my duty weapon, or other weapon with a capacity over 10 rounds, or do I need to conform to the 10 round limit under California law? It seems that know one really knows how to answer this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.


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    It is my understanding that the 10 round limit does not apply assuming you are carrying an approved (by your department) weapon
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    It is my understanding that the 10 round limit does not apply assuming you are carrying an approved (by your department) weapon
    Thanks. I took it that way, but sometimes I dont trust my own interuptation of these things. It seems like some states want to be their own countries sometimes with regard to laws that they may not like. If I go there to visit relatives, I just dont want to get into any tussle.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    Instead of relying on your interpretation and on Sixto's as well, though both of you are likely correct, why not make an inquiry of CA DPS or a local police dept. in the area you will be visiting. You might not get accurate information but it will be what THEY think the law is and that might save you some trouble.

    I don't know the details of LEOSA, but if you are enabled to carry something other than your duty weapon, perhaps it would be reasonable and prudent to just carry something with a smaller magazine or a revolver. The odds of you NOT getting into a significant gun fight requiring many rounds are far far far below the odds of you getting crossed up by some other LEO who has no clue what LEOSA is about.

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Instead of relying on your interpretation and on Sixto's as well, though both of you are likely correct, why not make an inquiry of CA DPS or a local police dept. in the area you will be visiting. You might not get accurate information but it will be what THEY think the law is and that might save you some trouble.

    I don't know the details of LEOSA, but if you are enabled to carry something other than your duty weapon, perhaps it would be reasonable and prudent to just carry something with a smaller magazine or a revolver. The odds of you NOT getting into a significant gun fight requiring many rounds are far far far below the odds of you getting crossed up by some other LEO who has no clue what LEOSA is about.
    This too is sage advice, and is kinda what I was thinking. I just am interested in what the othe brother in blue think also. I have no issue going there with only a 5 shot revolver, but, will take the most capacity I can. Other guys here are probably more up on these matters than I. But I will call ahead.
    It is just ridiculous that there has to be this much confusion around something that should be cut and dry.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Gman,

    Re: large capacity magazines as enumerated in CPC Sec 12020
    As per Calif Penal Code Sec. 12020 (b) (20)

    (b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:


    (20) The sale to, lending to, transfer to, purchase by, receipt
    of, or importation into this state of, a large-capacity magazine by a
    sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with
    Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a
    firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    It is my understanding that the 10 round limit does not apply assuming you are carrying an approved (by your department) weapon
    That is how I would interpret it for active duty LEOs.

    I don't see anything in the language of the law that would prevent retired folks from doing so either.

    While not directly on target, the following is part of the 2011 mods to the legislation:

    This means that qualified active and retired law enforcement officers may carry ammunition in States which may have prohibited the possession of certain ammunition by persons not actively serving in law enforcement within that State.

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    Ex Member Array lwysocki's Avatar
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    call to CA AG

    I called the CA Attorney General's office about this very issue about a year ago and was informed that I could carry high cap magazines if I was traveling on law enforcement business; but if I was traveling for pleasure, I would be limited to 10 round mags...hope this helps

    Al

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Gman,

    Re: large capacity magazines as enumerated in CPC Sec 12020
    As per Calif Penal Code Sec. 12020 (b) (20)

    (b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:


    (20) The sale to, lending to, transfer to, purchase by, receipt
    of, or importation into this state of, a large-capacity magazine by a
    sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with
    Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a
    firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.
    Here's how I look at it. It is perhaps the coward's way, but it also would tend to keep me from being the victim of a false arrest. I would take into account the fact that the CA police are used to enforcing a 10 round maximum. I would think to myself that while I might be really really legally right to carry 15, I could have my vacation turned into a nightmare.

    Harken back to the thread about the guy in Phila getting arrested and harassed for doing something which was perfectly lawful--OC with a PA LTCF.

    So, ordinary prudence and self-preservation would indicate that the wisest move is to carry 10 or a revolver. Carry an extra mag or speed clip, or a backup, and not sweat the details.

    It shouldn't have to be this way, but look at what is posted in # 8. Somehow I think there is absolutely no basis in the law for the advice given there by the CA Attny General's office. LEOSA doesn't split hares between official and unofficial travel, though no doubt CA does have laws which apply to on-duty officers from out of state and the Fed. But, those have nothing whatsoever to do with LEOSA. IMO, this is just another example of folks making up the law on the fly. So, back to the question G man asked. The answer is mostly "who know?" So play it safe. Or perhaps the answer is your good with 15 but don't really expect the typical non-gun enthusiast guy who stops you for a traffic violation to know that or believe it. You will be lucky if they even know what LEOSA is.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I found some info on another forum where someone from the AG's office was contacted, and apparently didnt even know the answer. Thats kinda scary.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Of note, is the fact that possession of a large capacity mag is not a violation, it is the manufacture, offering for sale and import that is not allowed.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    Member Array Blue Jacket's Avatar
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    If you do get pulled over, you could always tell the left coast cop: I'm from Ken-Tuc, and in Ken-Tuc we carry real big guns with a lot of ammo. Seriously, when in doubt carry 10. That's what I'd do, because I certainly would not want to be hassled anywhere in the country of California.
    May we never forget those in uniform who protect us night and day in lands far away. And those in all wars who paid the supreme sacrifice in defense of our country. May God Bless our Troops and First Responders.

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    I thought that it was set up to carry the gun and ammo that you qualified with?

    If thats the case, it shouldnt matter. I doubt that even a California cop would bust your chops on that one.
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  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I will put up ten bucks that the average street cop in Calif doesn't know the minute idiosyncracies of the high cap statute and its relation to LEOSA and probably dosen't care.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I found some info on another forum where someone from the AG's office was contacted, and apparently didnt even know the answer. Thats kinda scary.
    Kinda gives one the impression they make this stuff up as they go along.
    Smitty
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