SIG P220, Departmental Gun, Please Help!!!!!!!

This is a discussion on SIG P220, Departmental Gun, Please Help!!!!!!! within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Hello everyone, havent posted in a long time but I need the help of the community. I currently work in a department NW Ohio and ...

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Thread: SIG P220, Departmental Gun, Please Help!!!!!!!

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    Member Array evanely's Avatar
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    SIG P220, Departmental Gun, Please Help!!!!!!!

    Hello everyone, havent posted in a long time but I need the help of the community.

    I currently work in a department NW Ohio and our current duty gun is .45 ACP Sig P220. These guns have an unknown age. I know they are on there second set of switching firearms from going to revolvers to semi autos. So at least 12 years of age at the minimum.

    Im currently arguing with my Armorer/Firearms Instructor over my weapon. Due to the age and the weapon being used when I got it, currently on a regular basis when I attempt to eject a magazine the magazine will be pull the top round off the magazine approximately one quarter to one half of the bullet will be sticking out/pulled off the magazine, therefore the magazine will not fully drop, sometimes about 1/2 inch of the magazine will stick out, then you have to rip the magazine out. This is happening to about three different guys guns at our PD.

    The firearms instructor/armorer is saying its because my springs are over wore out or too tight. He has told me to clean the magazines and take the springs out of them and pull them over so slightly to restretch them. Just a little background, he is an ex military guy who has the opinion I am right your wrong and what I say goes. Not knocking military guys but his attitude sucks. I have approached him on more then one occasion and I am finally pissed about it. I have done everything he has said and it is still occuring. Any help will be appreciated.

    Frankly I do not trust his judgement and I calling SIG as well tomorrow and hopefully they will provide some insight. If they say something different and nothing changes with firearm instructor I am just going to file a grievance through our union in the event to hope it changes the issue with my gun.
    G27
    Rossi 461 357
    Ruger LCP
    Springfield XDm 9mm
    SIG P220 (work)

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  3. #2
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    Hello, I happen to be an LE Sig armorer and carry the 220 for work as well. I hope I can help.

    First, you didn't happen to put new grips or grip screws on the gun, did you? If so, its a common issue for the grip screw to be just ever so slightly to long and can cause the issue you described. A couple of quick and steady passes on a bench grinder will solve the problem. (Here's a hint, its usually the upper grip screws)

    Second thing I'd look at is the follower in your magazine. Does it do it with every mag, or just a few? Can you get a hold of a new magazine and try it? Does the issue occur with ball ammo, or just duty ammo?
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Hello, I happen to be an LE Sig armorer and carry the 220 for work as well. I hope I can help.

    First, you didn't happen to put new grips or grip screws on the gun, did you? If so, its a common issue for the grip screw to be just ever so slightly to long and can cause the issue you described. A couple of quick and steady passes on a bench grinder will solve the problem. (Here's a hint, its usually the upper grip screws)

    Second thing I'd look at is the follower in your magazine. Does it do it with every mag, or just a few? Can you get a hold of a new magazine and try it? Does the issue occur with ball ammo, or just duty ammo?
    I've had the same experience. +++1

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    The SIG P220 is a great firearm.

    You might want to try the P220 +10% magazine springs. Buy one from Wolff & see if that solves the problem.
    I don't think it's a very wise idea at all to restretch existing gun springs. Especially on a police duty gun.
    Off the record I don't know of any police armoror worth his gun grease that would suggest that officers stretch their duty firearm gun springs in order to rejuvenate them.

    Springs for SIG-SAUER (SIGARMS) P-220 Semi-Auto Pistols

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    Member Array evanely's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    The SIG P220 is a great firearm.

    You might want to try the P220 +10% magazine springs. Buy one from Wolff & see if that solves the problem.
    I don't think it's a very wise idea at all to restretch existing gun springs. Especially on a police duty gun.
    Off the record I don't know of any police armoror worth his gun grease that would suggest that officers stretch their duty firearm gun springs in order to rejuvenate them.

    Springs for SIG-SAUER (SIGARMS) P-220 Semi-Auto Pistols
    Thanks for the support. A bunch of us are suggesting the same, but he is also the same individual who has the chief's ear, good or bad not making a comment, the internet is a small world.
    G27
    Rossi 461 357
    Ruger LCP
    Springfield XDm 9mm
    SIG P220 (work)

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    Member Array evanely's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Hello, I happen to be an LE Sig armorer and carry the 220 for work as well. I hope I can help.

    First, you didn't happen to put new grips or grip screws on the gun, did you? If so, its a common issue for the grip screw to be just ever so slightly to long and can cause the issue you described. A couple of quick and steady passes on a bench grinder will solve the problem. (Here's a hint, its usually the upper grip screws)

    Second thing I'd look at is the follower in your magazine. Does it do it with every mag, or just a few? Can you get a hold of a new magazine and try it? Does the issue occur with ball ammo, or just duty ammo?
    I have not tried ball ammo but will do so when I return back to work. We carry hydra shock (being an armory and I a patrolman, I have suggested changing duty ammo along with providing support for my claim and I get shoot down everytime. I do have a new magazine in which I will experiment with but I think they hard part is I do not think I should be responsible for cost of new springs, give me a new gun yes give me a gun probably 12 years old which has NEVER been serviced. It is not the grip screws, I have checked the already. What exactly does the mag follower look like? Sorry for the rant, a police officer was just recently killed in a shootout about 15 minutes from my house in a different city so just fired up on how a City or Armorer will not be willing to correct the problem immediately. Just amazing how every city is different. We are the only department I know of personally which gives people uncertified if not brand new firearms upon being hired. Once again sorry for the rant.
    Last edited by rstickle; March 27th, 2011 at 08:00 PM. Reason: Watch the language!
    G27
    Rossi 461 357
    Ruger LCP
    Springfield XDm 9mm
    SIG P220 (work)

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    Yeah, I feel your pain. I'm very aware of the situation in the area that you live and police, along with the politics and scandal.

    Anyway, the follower is the plastic piece that sits on top in the mag spring and what the ammunition "rides" on until it is injected into the chamber. It could very well be mag springs too, and I'll echo QKshooters post. Your armorer is playing with fire... it might be OK to try stretching the springs on a range gun to get you through the day, but a duty gun? Wow.

    As far as your dept. paying for the parts, absolutely. Here is what I've done in the past; Purchase needed parts from a reputable dealer. (Top Gun supply is "local" to you) Submit your receipt along with detailed documentation of the problem and how these parts solved the problem. Also mention that they are wear parts, and do need replacement every so often. If they pay up, great. If not, you might be out 20 bucks or so, but at least the gun you carry to save your life works properly now.
    jwhite75 and dsee11789 like this.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    "the INTERNET is a small world."

    I heard that.

    Just for the record 12 years old is really not old for a SIG P220. It's a great workhorse ultra-reliable Police firearm.
    You guys are actually decently fortunate to have it for your duty gun IF (of course) they are functioning properly.
    My own "P220" is actually the forerunner of the American version & it's the Euro SIG SAUER SYSTEM Browning BDA .45.
    Mine has had thousands of rounds through it. It's a lightweight Aluminum Alloy frame and the SIG Hard Coat Anodizing is not even worn off the frame rails yet.

    If your armorer is a "spring stretcher" (which speaks volumes in and of itself) then your duty SIG firearms may be due for a complete gun-spring overhaul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    If your armorer is a "spring stretcher" (which speaks volumes in and of itself) then your duty SIG firearms may be due for a complete gun-spring overhaul.
    Agreed.

    I'm not planning on any trips north until later this summer, otherwise I'd offer to do it for him just to make sure its done right.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Dont stop til your gun is 100%. It is more important than anything you do. Good luck.
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    Do I think that you should have to pay for your own weapons parts, no.

    But at the same time, I purchased a lot of my own gear for deployments, everything from P-mags, to surefires, to knives, ect... Generally I was issued a piece of gear that "filled" those roles, but that I didn't feel comfortable trusting my life too. In the long run, if spending $25 on springs and parts gives you piece of mind, and confidence, and possibly saves your life, doesn't it seem worth it?

    FWIW, in the Marines we are issued rifles with unknown numbers or rounds through them. They do get inspected every once in a while, but brand new weapons are a rarity from what I have seen. Is there anyway you can get it to a competent armorer? That is what I would do, even if it was on my own dime.
    QKShooter likes this.
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    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

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    I personally have to supply my own weapons and equipment or get issued stuff that dosen't fit comfortably, work correctly, hold up to pressure, stay on the belt. etc. etc. etc. If we can not provide a weapon, we are issued an old S&W .38 revolver to carry, I personally would not trust an issued gun unless it was new. Do what you need to do to get your equipment working right, don't go cheap, and turn in your receipts for reimbursement. I prefer to get my own gear because I can get what I am comfortable with and what works for me. If they do not reimburse you for a life saving tool, turn it over to your union rep
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

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    Try some new magazines. It's probably time for some new ones anyway.

    I carried a Sig on duty for 10 years, any issue that I ever had was cured by a new magazine.

    That could be the difference between living or dying. I wouldnt let an amorer shake my confidence in a weapon. If you ever have to use it, the LAST thing you'll need to think about is whether it will work or not.
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    +1 on NOT stretching your springs. The metallurgists and engineers can give you the science on why this is A Bad Idea, but the short of it is this: it's a bad idea. Buy new springs. Check the grip screws. Buy new mags. Do what you need to do to get it up and running - there is no real reason a 12 year old P220 that doesn't get shot all that much should be ready for retirement (my 10+ year old P228 is well over 50,000 rounds now, and runs as good as the day I got it).
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    (my 10+ year old P228 is well over 50,000 rounds now, and runs as good as the day I got it).
    Nice!
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

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