I am confused.

I am confused.

This is a discussion on I am confused. within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I don't want this to turn into a partisan political thing. Plenty of idiots in every political party. IIRC last year the feds were saying ...

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Thread: I am confused.

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    I am confused.

    I don't want this to turn into a partisan political thing. Plenty of idiots in every political party. IIRC last year the feds were saying local politicians in the southwest were exaggerating the security issues on the border. Now I see this on the news.
    Feds think man aided terror suspects through Texas | khou.com | khou.com Texas News

    So am I supposed to believe the border is secure or not?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    I don't want this to turn into a partisan political thing. Plenty of idiots in every political party. IIRC last year the feds were saying local politicians in the southwest were exaggerating the security issues on the border. Now I see this on the news.
    Feds think man aided terror suspects through Texas | khou.com | khou.com Texas News

    So am I supposed to believe the border is secure or not?
    No way to know until they actually find one of them instead of just "believe" or "think" it happened. And if they are looking for them in TX they are looking in the wrong place; try Minneapolis.

    Also, "The alert went out after new charges were filed against the 24-year-old Dhakane, who had been arrested in Brownsville in 2008 on immigration charges."

    Sounds like whatever happened may have taken place 3-4 years back, so yes, the border might be more secure today as compared to back then.

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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Well if the border is secure as was being publicly stated by the government what was the point of the alert? Kind of a waste of time and resources to put out an alert if it was that long after the fact don't you think?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Well if the border is secure as was being publicly stated by the government what was the point of the alert? Kind of a waste of time and resources to put out an alert if it was that long after the fact don't you think?
    YUP.

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    I submit that the crime rate in greater Phoenix is ample evidence that our borders are less secure than our government would lead us to believe. Mexico has put our local meth manufacturing out of business, and these days only hobbyists seem to be growing marijuana in any quantity. Add smuggling humans to that mix, and metro Phoenix's sheer size and proximity to two major Interstate highways makes this region alive with crime related to an unsecured border.
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    Secure Border

    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post

    So am I supposed to believe the border is secure or not?
    Nope ... it's those pesky Canadians again ....
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    If they could tell you how many people are here Illegally by name and address then I would say they know there is no danger,but In reality they have no idea who crossed illegally and probably won't until they do something to get their attention
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kc5fm View Post
    I have some a couple doors over. Very nice people and very vocal oponents to illegal immigration and amnesty. They see no reason for anyone to have it any easier than they did.

    Found this from the Houston Chronicle.
    Watch-list suspects raise alert at the Mexican border | Houston & Texas News | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle
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    Neither border is secure. GWB had the perfect excuse to lock it down after sept 11th and did not, obama has another excuse to lock it down now with the outcry against border violence, but he won't Why? Because as the cartels make drug money, the other side, law enforcement, courts, jails, and other municipalities get to fleece us dry of our tax money to fight the "war on drugs" , the rich get to pay illegals under the table peasants wages to clean their homes, take care of their kids, maintain their lawns, and work in their factories... LE gets the to increase budgets tenfold, three letter agencies get all the best toys and equipment, and the darkest three letter agency gets to skim tax dollars off the top for black ops and label it war on drug money. Who who gets rich? Cartels on dirty drug money, and the ones who "fight the war on drugs" with OUR tax money..... both sides are dirty as far as I am concerned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    ... So am I supposed to believe the border is secure or not?
    In a word, Yes.

    "Swear allegiance to the flag, whatever flag they offer"

    It depends on which politician is telling you it is secure or not secure... Whatever he's saying is true. As long as he is trying to get elected, stay elected, or thinking about elections, or even if he's pickin' his (or her) nose.. He is telling the truth, and he can back it up with other like "truths."

    Not to worry, everything is fine.

    Whew, glad that's settled, let's move on now... nothing to see here.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    Cool

    I love my country but more and more I trust my government less and less.

    I would tend to believe the good Americans that live in that area over Washington,DC.

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    "Secure" is always a relative word. Even in your own home, behind alarms, dogs, locked doors and windows, you do not have absolute security.

    Our international airports, for all the visa and passport requirement, inspections and examinations are certainly not 100% foolproof.

    The question that is important is are we better off now in terms of border security, in some significant fashion, then we were in the recent past. Are more or less people crossing illegally? Are we preventing human traffic operations, and how do we know if we are succeeding? Are more, less, or the same amount of illegal drugs getting into the country? How do we know?

    You can't go by isolated reports from individuals, and at some point you do have to put some trust in your own government. If you have NO trust in your government, as many here, then perhaps it is time to make new plans for your life.

    No government is perfect. No agency is always going to get it right. No leader will always make decisions which are pleasing to everyone.

    The complaint seems to be that crime in our major cities (Phoenix being given as an example) continues to rise. Is that accurate? Or is that just words? What is the source of the crime rise if it is happening? Is it illegal migrants? Is it US citizen criminals?

    I do think that azchevy's post 9 above touches on many valid points, but it also shows the complexity of the problem.

    As for the OP's post, again, the article was speaking of someone arrested 3 years ago, alleged to have smuggled people prior, so it doesn't reflect on today's situation which might or might not be improved. I think no one really knows.
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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I do think that azchevy's post 9 above touches on many valid points, but it also shows the complexity of the problem.

    Complex isn't the word for it, really lock down the border and you affect what employers are paying their employees which raises consumer prices or results in layoffs or closures, it affects LE and other agency staffing and budgets, causing layoffs and or increase in taxes to pay for services, it affects local economies of border states, it affects food prices in general passed onto consumers and restaurants..... it also has it's benefits in schools and healthcare not being overloaded, possible crime decreases although there are no definitive studies and many other things... it is not a simple solution.

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    Senior Member Array gwhall57's Avatar
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    "So am I supposed to believe the border is secure or not"? Really? Of course the border is not secure. But does the government want you to believe that it is? Certainly! They also want you to believe that amassing the largest national debt in history is, somehow, a good thing.
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  15. #15
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    "Secure" is always a relative word. Even in your own home, behind alarms, dogs, locked doors and windows, you do not have absolute security.

    Our international airports, for all the visa and passport requirement, inspections and examinations are certainly not 100% foolproof.

    The question that is important is are we better off now in terms of border security, in some significant fashion, then we were in the recent past. Are more or less people crossing illegally? Are we preventing human traffic operations, and how do we know if we are succeeding? Are more, less, or the same amount of illegal drugs getting into the country? How do we know?
    From the article in the Chron:
    An independent analysis by Vanderbilt political science and law professor Carol Swain and Vanderbilt student Saurabh Sharad found a 67 percent increase in arrests of border crossers from suspect nations - up from 213 in 2000 to 355 in 2009.
    While it doesn't address the total number of crossings it does raise concerns about who it is doing the crossing. If arrests over all are up 67% that is not significant. If over all arrests are down or the same but the "suspect nations" account for 67% more than in the past, that looks like trouble.
    You can't go by isolated reports from individuals, and at some point you do have to put some trust in your own government. If you have NO trust in your government, as many here, then perhaps it is time to make new plans for your life.
    So do we trust the government people telling us there is no problem, or the government people telling us there is a problem? When people from the same agency are contradicting each other who do you listen to? Or do we just accept either position without question?
    No government is perfect. No agency is always going to get it right. No leader will always make decisions which are pleasing to everyone.

    The complaint seems to be that crime in our major cities (Phoenix being given as an example) continues to rise. Is that accurate? Or is that just words? What is the source of the crime rise if it is happening? Is it illegal migrants? Is it US citizen criminals?

    I do think that azchevy's post 9 above touches on many valid points, but it also shows the complexity of the problem.

    As for the OP's post, again, the article was speaking of someone arrested 3 years ago, alleged to have smuggled people prior, so it doesn't reflect on today's situation which might or might not be improved. I think no one really knows.
    I am not so sure that his arrest three years ago is necessarily related to the alert issued last year. That might well have just been background filler on the guy.
    From the story in the Chron :
    WASHINGTON — Nearly 900 "special interest aliens" from 35 nations with suspected ties to terrorism have been apprehended along the border between Texas and California over the past 17 months, the Lone Star State being the land route of choice, according to a Border Patrol report obtained by the Chronicle.
    So do we trust the Border Patrol report?
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