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A tough topic to discuss

2K views 20 replies 18 participants last post by  Sig 210 
#1 ·
The relatively high number of current and former service members commiting suicide makes me sad.

Sure, it's understood that battle will leave scars and we're spending millions trying to get a better grip on PTSD and the other afllictions associated with war but, stories like this One big question haunts Marine's suicide: Why? - CNN.com are troubling to me.

Is it a symtom of our society??? The children we raise and the pressures we put on them?

I pray that we all come out of these current conflicts stronger and wiser...and that our young people look to God for answers.
 
#2 ·
I was a frequent flyer at Walter Reed while being treated for an LOD impairment and I observed a lot. Though PTSD is a real problem, I saw quite a few service members gaining the system.
 
#3 ·
I heard someone blame air travel, and it makes sense. In WWII and Korea they guys had a 3 week ship ride to "decompress" from combat, but now they leave Kuwait and are back home in a matter of hours. Lt Col Dave Grossman recommends a mid length therapeutic decompression stage after a combat tour.
 
#5 ·
I heard someone blame air travel, and it makes sense. In WWII and Korea they guys had a 3 week ship ride to "decompress" from combat, but now they leave Kuwait and are back home in a matter of hours. Lt Col Dave Grossman recommends a mid length therapeutic decompression stage after a combat tour.
I'm no doctor but, that makes sense to me.
 
#4 ·
The military is the first fraternal organization that most of us have ever belonged to and we very often do not have the necessary time to spend with those who are the only ones who know and understand what we have seen, where we have been, what we feel, and how to put all in prespective. That long trip back should be actual as it is emotional also.
 
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#7 ·
I remember once a long time ago, being in a very intense zone, wondering if I was going to live to see the sunset or even eat my next meal.

It came to an end and I was put on an aircraft and after a very long flight in which I slept through most of it because I was exhausted,and we landed on base. We were taken to a debriefing that lasted two days and then were given 2 weeks of rest and recuperation.

I called my then girlfriend and she came a got me. I went from living and existing in one extreme set of conditions to another set of conditions that knew nothing of what I had been through and at times I actually found myself wondering if it what I had experienced was in fact real or just a dream. Sometimes it was like I was living a double life and I had only a few friends that went through the same thing that I could even relate too.

I have often wondered if some "decompression time" would have helped me to come to terms. As with all things, time heals.

Today, one can go from dodging bullets and bombs in the morning to being whisked back to home where the dog that was asleep on the porch when you left hasn't even moved yet.

It can't be a good thing to go from zero to 100 percent adrenaline flow and back again in such a short time. I don't think we can turn our brains on or off that quick and it does seem to take a toll on ones mental health when it is required.
 
#8 ·
One significant difference between WWI and WWII and our current wars is that WWI and WWII were WON, they were finished, over, and the enemies vanquished while occupation troops did their stuff............The Troops returned home, they had done their jobs, and they were ready to return to their ongoing civilian lives - college - work - girlfriends - whatever.......

Now.................everything just continues..........more tours........more training.........

Living close to Colorado Springs and the Mountain Base and the Air Force Bases and the AFA keeps all of these matters front and center, where the public should and can support the Troops.

It is troubling.
 
#9 ·
I agree with about ALL of the above.... those in WWII all told me it took at least 2 mo's before they actually got to see "home" once they left the theatre, plus "down time" there before they even left. Second, they weren't looking at a 2nd or 3rd tour in the future. They were with those who understood exactly what they had been thru, etc. as where civilians wouldn't.... so they could "discuss" their experiences, and decompress.

Those coming home now are there in hours.... and some times people at home, expect them to be "back" mentally as well, when they aren't. That adds pressures as well.....
 
#11 ·
I know Army and Marine troops who are doing a sixth tour in the suck. The vast majority of WWII vets were draftees. They fought one war, came home after one tour and got out of the military. Few WWII troops spent more than two years in a combat theatre.

The US military is being run ragged because they are volunteers. The military is holding folks past their ETS because they can do it.

I retired from the US Army in 1979. I tried the VA system and can tell you it is a joke: The VA killed three friends of mine. Once a person is out of the military they are on their own.
 
#18 ·
I know Army and Marine troops who are doing a sixth tour in the suck. The vast majority of WWII vets were draftees. They fought one war, came home after one tour and got out of the military. Few WWII troops spent more than two years in a combat theatre.
A couple of points..... Most the troops in WWII stayed in-theater for the duration, that is from their deployment till the time they had the "points" to rotate home after the surrender. Some units were actually being scheduled for movement from Europe to Asia after Germany's surrender.

A lot of the WWII troops actually spent fewer days in actual combat then those today and Vietnam due to the differences in combat tactics. Units were actually rotated out of the front lines for R&R and retrofit in theater.

Just saying, not all wars are the same.
 
#12 ·
I think the issues involved are very complex. I think the way kids are raised today is a lot different then even just a few short decades ago. Today, everyone schemes for a way to shift responsibility and now we have a whole generation of kids who do not know how to handle responsibility and a skewed sense of reality. I also know there are going to be a whole lot of folks who disagree with my assessment but I think that is only part of the issue.

Also I haven't seen any real statistics on wars past, but I do think a lot more gets reported openly for public consumption today then in previous wars. However that could just be my perception and not have much of a real correlation.

I also think that in wars past, there was a decompression time before troops returned home from the battlefield. Today, you can have someone knee deep in the SHTF engagements, and back home trying to put their son's bicycle together and have a family BBQ in less than 48 hours. At least probably more so with the special ops troops.

At any rate, it is troubling. If anyone saw the HBO special that James Ganolfini (Tony Soprano) did, Wartorn 1861-2010, chronicling PTSD/suicide from the civil war through today, you'd probably find it pretty sad and disturbing.
 
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#13 ·
Thank you to all of you here who have served. With that being said......

I did not serve in the US Military. I work as a firefighter and volunteer with a critical incident stress debriefing team. I have CISM Group and Peer One on One Training. A couple of days ago I attended a class given by the VA on PTSD and our vets. We recently have been seeing more incidents in the Hudson Valley Area involving people returning from over seas. Incidents can range from DWI, Domestic Violence, Isolation, Deppression, Drug Use, Road Rage, and Suicide to name a few.

One thing that stuck out in my mind was the documented TBI's (Traumatic Brain Injuries) that our troops are sustaining. Research is showing a relationship to the TBI's and the PTSD. We were told that if a Veteran had been involved in an IED attack at the very least a mild TBI happened. This new but old injury happens more often then it did in past conflicts. Technology has made it possible to survive more of these attacks then in the past. (advances in armor and medicine) I know one of the trauma doc's said this is serious stuff that can really short circut the brain. Add to that the brain's ability to sub consiously remember detail and you have some problems that are serious under the surface.
 
#15 ·
I think depts and agencies shouldn't sit down with a returning service member telling them they have ptsd and they have a problem
 
#16 ·
These are very simple statements that do not encompass the entire gravity of these situations. But it is because the whole "support the troops" is really only bumper sticker patriotism. This country does not support its troops enough when they return home. That's why the majority of homeless men are vets. And, war is a dehumanizing experience for all those involved, and people don't typically come out better after experiencing it.

This is in no way meant as a slam against our service members.
 
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#17 ·
Where do you people get your info from? WWII Vets did 2 years and went home? They entered the war and were there for the duration of the War. "We won " WWII? That is bs, we ended up fighting the Russians for decades. WWII was totally unfinished. Stalin was 10X worse than Hitler and we let him just carve up Europe.

Why is the military committing suicide? It is because of the generation. Before the military, they played video games, were sheltered from life and never had hard times. To their defense, we made them be Cops in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are warriors, let them kill and take out the threat as they see fit. Now they have to ask permission to engage. It is insane. We owe our Vets a debt of gratitude we can never, ever repay. You see a vet in a restaurant, pick up his tab, believe me it is the least you can do. Vets are real heroes, not those scumbags who play b ball or football.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Where do you people get your info from? WWII Vets did 2 years and went home?
Never said that. This is what i said and i stand by it.

Few WWII troops spent more than two years in a combat theatre.
The point system for rotation from Europe came into effect in May, 1945. 89 points was the cutoff.

+1 Point for each month of service (between 16 Sept 1940 - 12 May 1945)
+1 Point for each month overseas (between 16 Sept 1940 - 12 May 1945)
+5 Points for first & each award received: DSC, LM, SS, DFC, SM, BS, AM, PH
+5 Campaign stars worn on theater ribbons
+12 Points for each child (< 18 yrs) up to a limit of 3 children.
 
#20 · (Edited)
I just sat through a suicide briefing today. All I could think was that Soldiers today are weak minded. Somehow we have decided that it was OK to commit suicide. Pressure and the types of rotations we pull are sure to have some effects on how a person reacts to stressors, but at what point did Americans decide that it was OK to kill themselves? Someone said it earlier, they said how kids nowadays like to shift the blame and deflect responsibility. I believe that hits the nail on the head.
 
#21 ·
The signature wound of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are brain injuries from concussion. For years DOD dragged its feet when it came to identifying troops with brain injuries. In 2006 the US congress cut the budget of the center for brain injury research by six million dollars.

USATODAY.com - Center for war-related brain injuries faces budget cut


In March, 2009 DOD estimated that 360,000 troops may have brain injuries; most are undiagnosed. Who is to say what causes a brain injured man to kill himself.


WASHINGTON — Pentagon officials estimated for the first time Wednesday that up to 360,000 Iraq and Afghanistan veterans may have suffered brain injuries. Among them are 45,000 to 90,000 veterans whose symptoms persist and warrant specialized care. Army Brig. Gen. Loree Sutton provided the estimate during a news conference about March as Brain Injury Awareness Month. She heads the Pentagon's Centers of Excellence for Psychological Health and Traumatic Brain Injury.
Military & Veterans: Politics for the deserving: 360,000 veterans may have brain injuries
 
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