University Cop fired for responding to Officer Down - Page 2

University Cop fired for responding to Officer Down

This is a discussion on University Cop fired for responding to Officer Down within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by DefConGun I've always wondered about the authority that University cops have. Are they glorified security guards or can they really arrest you ...

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  1. #16
    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DefConGun View Post
    I've always wondered about the authority that University cops have. Are they glorified security guards or can they really arrest you and have you prosecuded the same as a normal LEO or what?
    If they're referred to as police, they're a full-fledged police department. Smaller and private universities generally only have security. I attended the University of Central Florida, and we had our own police department. They don't usually patrol off campus, but I do believe they have reciprocity agreements in the nearby area. Most of our sheriffs and PDs have reciprocity agreements so that they can back each other up if necessary along county and city borders and such.

    UCF Police Department

    About Us: Established in 1973, the UCF Police Department currently employs approximately 60 sworn law enforcement officers, serving nearly 50,000 people in an area of more than 2.2 square miles.
    About the OP, that is tough. On one hand, I understand the rules for minimum number of officers that have to be on duty. On the other hand, an officer down call is pretty serious. That should have been a mitigating circumstance. I hope he gets hired by whatever PD's call he responded to.

    According to the article,
    edmak left his post when only two other officers were on duty and failed to notify his supervisor of his whereabouts for nearly an hour, which could have endangered the safety of our students and campus," according to the university.
    Maybe he would have been ok if he just called in? I'm not sure. I don't want to Monday morning QB here, but I wonder why he didn't at least give a quick radio shout? Perhaps he was otherwise occupied at the scene?


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Possibly he knew what he thought the answer would be and was not prepared to accept that.
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  3. #18
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    If they let red blooded American students properly defend themselves instead of creating gun free zones and punishing the law abiding then maybe they wouldn't have had to make the rash and over the top decision to fire this individual for "endangering the safety of our students and campus" . I truly hope he is a member of a union and files an appeal to be looked at by a board instead of letting some bureaucrat make a hasty decision that could affect his career when he was answering a call for all hands and rushing to the aid of a fellow brother or sister.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Something to keep in mind is that he when he left campus he wasn't just a block or two away. The bus station is over two and half miles from campus.
    You now have one third of your on duty force dropping off the radar for over an hour to assist the fifth largest police department in the country.
    Just speculation here but I would bet dollars to donuts the reason he didn't call out is that he knew the Sgt. would have ordered him to stay on campus.
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  5. #20
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    That pic is in fact yours truly, East L.A., circa 70', the day after a riot, doing an intersection control, meal relief.
    Cool. I've always wondered about that pic. In my mind, I always imagined it was Vietnam and you were talking to command post per having men in the bush. Its funny how our mind fills in the blanks when we don't have enough info.

    Very cool pic. ;-)

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array Curt58's Avatar
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    Sometimes a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do!
    Even if it means he gonna get burned for it.

    2.5 miles away from his work zone is excessive, but maybe he had a good reason to come to their aid.
    Maybe the officer down was a friend or family. Or the guy just wanted to do something exciting and thought he could help.
    He probably thought he'd get his hand slapped for it, but then again he may have decided it was a crummy job anyway!

    Hard to say this late after the buzzer, but it clearly was against Department Policy, so the termination was correct.
    I doubt he's going to lose much sleep over it.

    IIRC University Police aren't 6 figure jobs.
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  7. #22
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    Very good points here. In truth, it doesn't take a long time to call something in so it is curious why he didn't do it. How does the saying go? Sometimes its easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission.

  8. #23
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    I can understand it. Considering where Rice is vs downtown, many officers are much nearer in downtown Houston that can respond, and I doubt his going or his presence really did much for the situation. So, the necessity of his responding may be a concern to the University. Now, I said .. I kind of understand where they might be coming from, not necessarily that I agree with the decision nor the actions against him. I think it may have been better to have a discussion about it, worse case give him a warning, and move on. I think a dismissal is high over-reaction.
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    From what I got from the story is he was the first unit on scene,and when you got somebody shooting seconds count,Like others have said,he may have been a problem that they were looking for a way to get rid of and this gave them an excuse,
    I know if my ass was on fire I wouldn't care if a $200,000 dollar fire truck showed up in 5 minutes or a kid with a bucket of water was already standing there,I'd be thankful the kid came to put the fire out
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DefConGun View Post
    I've always wondered about the authority that University cops have. Are they glorified security guards or can they really arrest you and have you prosecuded the same as a normal LEO or what?
    It depends. At a private school, they are nothing more than glorified security. However, they might full well be state certified LEO- it just depends and the answer will vary. But, at a state school, they actually are state LEO's and have plenty authority all over the state, on campus and off. The kicker is, most school admins are gutless commie panty wastes who keep a tight leash on their police forces and don't allow them to do their jobs.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    University of Delaware Campus Security are fully sworn LEO's.
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  12. #27
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    It depends. At a private school, they are nothing more than glorified security. However, they might full well be state certified LEO- it just depends and the answer will vary. But, at a state school, they actually are state LEO's and have plenty authority all over the state, on campus and off. The kicker is, most school admins are gutless commie panty wastes who keep a tight leash on their police forces and don't allow them to do their jobs.
    "most school admins are gutless commie panty wastes who keep a tight leash on their police force and don't allow them to do theie jobs." Amen !

    They also hire chiefs who will abide by their wishes.
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  13. #28
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    Hmmm first on scene? That's weird. Was he on the phone with the LEO when he went down??? Or maybe he was already off campus and nearby, maybe even meeting the downed LEO somewhere? (FWIW I didn't read the story)

    My experience with campus cops is that even if fully sworn LEOs, they mostly don't rise to the professionalism/training/experience/etc. of city LEOs. Of course my experience is pretty much limited to some Norfolk State University LEOS back around '90. They impressed me as a bunch of old school prison guard thugs. But then again, with NSU's open matriculation policy and location, they were dealing with a bunch of future inmates, both among the student body and in the projects surrounding the campus.

    Now if you really want to talk about odd places IMHO to find LEOs:

    Norfolk International Airport

    Virginia Port Authority

    Kingsmill Resort (Busch Gardens) in Williamsburg, a real honest to goodness private police force due to being designated a 'political subdivision' by the General Assembly, although I've heard they're actually more like glorified gate guards. Several years ago one was killed when a truck ran over him in a tight turn as he was manipulating the gate.

    It seems to silly me that these places should use private security and call the city LEOs when needed, or have a city LEO on posted on site or nearby.

    Sentara Norfolk General uses in house security but has a city LEO posted in the ED waiting room 24/7. If you've ever seen some of those LEOs, you've got to wonder if they're being punished, in therapy or short timers being retired out.
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  14. #29
    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    I work in a university - we have thousands of students living on campus in dorms, some 4 to a room.

    It's a question of leaving your post without request to do so or perhaps even notice and leaving the University's own security under-staffed. Imagine a bad fire in a dorm with a missing a police officer as first responder, no one knowing this, no one to cover, kids getting killed, no one to lead them or even call out orders where to exit to students over a loudspeaker - this before Fire arrives.... Stuff happens; you can't just take off - different if it happened right outside the University and a University officer saw it and raced out to assist. This is several miles away.

  15. #30
    Senior Member Array DaRedneck's Avatar
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    From what I understand he did not call it in because the dispatcher as well as other officers were asking for radio silence so the officers on scene could communicate.

    Imagine though if you were less than 2 miles away and you hear those words that an officer is down and needs assistance and had been shot and then another officer shot. Adrenaline pumping and emotions. I'd like to think we'd all rush to their aid.

    There is a big group forming here and we are blowing up Rice's phones and mail servers. What is odd is Rice just sent him to active shooter school so he could train other officers for active shooter situations. Sure they sent him in the event there was an active shooter on campus but gimme a break. He wasn't that far away from 2 officers being shot.

    Hear is the actual radio communication of what officer Sedmak heard.....

    "He who does not punish evil commands it to be done." - Leonardo da Vinci

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