People not trusting cops - Page 7

People not trusting cops

This is a discussion on People not trusting cops within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by SIXTO However, if there is valid PC to the arrest, the arrest record stays because there is more than likely at least ...

Page 7 of 9 FirstFirst ... 3456789 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 122
Like Tree59Likes

Thread: People not trusting cops

  1. #91
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    16,947
    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    However, if there is valid PC to the arrest, the arrest record stays because there is more than likely at least some element of guilt. Somebody can be factually guilty and be legally innocent. There are thousands upon thousands of examples of that, I'm sure we all could provide our own. And that is what an arrest record shows vs. a conviction record.
    So if I commit homocide on an intruder in my home (factual guilt), am arrested but later released (legally innocent-ruled SD) would someone arbitrialy step in and erase my arrest? And the answer to the employment application question "Have you ever been arrested?" is. . . ?
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield


  2. #92
    VIP Member Array 357and40's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    St. Charles, Missouri
    Posts
    2,409
    BTW: My last post I was really tired while writing. Sorry for the incoherent rambling....

    The overall point sums up like this:

    Sixto, I think we agree 99.999% but are just saying it differently.

    -------------------------------

    Timmy & Sixto, Good discussion about civilian expectation of cops & vice-versa!
    "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
    - Roy Batty

  3. #93
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    Posts
    1,393
    Quote Originally Posted by jwhite75 View Post
    I am not a cop but see it all the time in my line of work in probation. I have a juvenile and adult caseload. The Court just removed a juvenile from her home and placed her with her grandmother because she couldnt get along with her parents. First mistake. The grandmother was doing IMO for the added food stamps she would receive and now realizes the child is a hellion. She called me the other day to complain because the teenage was spending too much time on the internet and she couldnt get on, and that the girl was playing her music too loud while she was trying to watch TV. I told her "you wanted her...you got her. Quit whining to me and take charge of your house. If not call the social worker and have her remove her. Ill just tell the judge".
    While this is a bit off-topic, this scenario shows a symptom of one of our society's problems...a lineage of poor parenting.
    azchevy likes this.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  4. #94
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    20,046
    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    So if I commit homocide on an intruder in my home (factual guilt), am arrested but later released (legally innocent-ruled SD) would someone arbitrialy step in and erase my arrest? And the answer to the employment application question "Have you ever been arrested?" is. . . ?
    Yes, it could be done. Note the difference between innocent and not guilty. You would have to file a motion to get rid of the arrest record if you are innocent. That's typically done at the time of judgement.
    If the arrest record remains for whatever reason, that would be your chance to explain to the prospective employer the story. Documentation would support the facts, and the employer has every right to make a decision to hire or not to hire.

    To answer your question "have you ever been arrested?", the answer would remain the same no matter what the record reflected, wouldn't it? The past is the past and truth is absolute no matter what some politician decided.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  5. #95
    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    908
    Nice little thread.

    I don't know why you would want to trust anyone, let alone someone with the authority to throw you in jail and start the process of throwing you in prison.

  6. #96
    Member Array kaboomkaboom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    186
    I have hesitated to write this as I have a current ongoing situation with a police officer. I ride a motorcycle, everyday. It's like my car, my main form of transportation. A couple of months ago I was stopped because the officer said he "ran my plates" and it came back registered to a "female in another town"... ( is that reason to affect a traffic stop anyway?) I said I've owned the bike for years, and you've got the registration in your hand. He was a motorcycle officer and was standing right next to me so I could hear his discussion with dispatch on the radio...after stopping me because he either on purpose or by mistake ran the wrong plate number, he ran wants and warrants on me...nothing...I have never even been arrested for anything and have 1 traffic citation in the last 30 years... Then he asks if I have a weapon ( if he was worried wouldn't that have been his first question?) I said yes, I do...he replied "A Firearm?" I replied yes..He immediately put his hand on his weapon, stepped back and ordered me off my vehicle.."I said I do have a concealed carry permit" ( we are not required to show the permit or mention the weapon in this state unless and until asked by the proper authorities) he hollered "I said get off the blankety blank vehicle and on the ground NOW!!" so, I complied. He then pat searched me and remove my weapon from my IWB holster, cleared the weapon and set in on the side walk I was laying on...He asked " Why do you feel the need to carry a weapon" I replied "The same reason you do, to protect myself from bad guys"...then out of the blue he totally changed the subject..and said " That exhaust system is illegal." I said "What?" "I said that exhaust system is illegal...an exhaust system that isn't stock from the factory is illegal" I said "so the banks exhaust brake I have on my pick up is illegal too because it's not stock?" he replies " Yes...I'm giving you a ticket for that exhaust". I said it's not even loud, it is a replacement system put on when the bike was wrecked before I bought it" " I don't care..." And writes me a ticket...I get the state and local codes and he flat out lied about what the law says, so I plead not guilty and I end up winning in court...but the reason I won was he didn't even bother to show up! He KNEW he was writing me a ticket on a code that didn't say what he wrote the ticket for! Bottom line...I Lost 2 days of my life pleading not guilty then going to the actual court date, fees I paid to consult with an attorney on the law and a general pain in the patuddy...I filed a complaint with the local police department and since then, in the last 2 months I have been stopped 7...YES 7 times by other officers in his department, but have never been ticketed at least. Just hassled...( Previously I hadn't been stopped in years and years...can't even actually remember how long it had been since it had been so long ago) I have been followed all the way across town, approximately 10 miles, with an officer changing lane for lane with me, turn for turn etc.., right to my house! This is still going on to the point where I am almost afraid to ride my motorcycle or drive my truck! They are just plain hassling me, and I really don't even know what to do...seems the more I report their misdeeds, the more they hassle me! I can't afford an attorney to fight city hall... I guess the state attorney generals office is next?

    This has soured my respect for police in general...Do I "trust" them?...Less and less everyday!
    Last edited by kaboomkaboom; July 15th, 2011 at 03:13 PM. Reason: I put a curse word in as a quote!! I Apologize..It was an oversite!

  7. #97
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    Posts
    1,393
    Quote Originally Posted by kaboomkaboom View Post
    ... Then he asks if I have a weapon ( if he was worried wouldn't that have been his first question?) I said yes, I do...he replied "A Firearm?" I replied yes..He immediately put his hand on his weapon, stepped back and ordered me off my vehicle.."I said I do have a concealed carry permit" ( we are not required to show the permit or mention the weapon in this state unless and until asked by the proper authorities) he hollered "I said get off the blankety blank vehicle and on the ground NOW!!"...
    It was recommended by my Permit to Carry class instructor (as well in a few reading resources) to answer the question "do you have any weapons?" by responding "I have a permit to carry a firearm & I am exercising my right to do so at this time." Mentioning your possession of the permit (or ccw, or what have you) first & then not directly saying that you have a (gun, firearm, weapon) may help keep the LEO from escalating their level of concern beyond answering their question.

    Not to say that this would have satisfied this particular officer's fishing expedition...
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  8. #98
    Member Array kaboomkaboom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    186
    ^^^^^^You are of course correct...and I actually know that...but I should practice it until it is automatic! I was so shook up it went right out of my mind!...

  9. #99
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    3,062
    Innocent is not a finding of any court. A person may be found "NOT GUILTY". The jury or judge has decided that the prosicutor has failed to meet the standard of proof in a criminal case. That being "BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT". No where is it decided in a court case that the defendant didnt commit the crime. If during a trial, or after a trial based on an appeal a person is proven to be innocent the court must dismiss charges without prejudice, and the judge order all records be expunged.

  10. #100
    Senior Member Array Maverickx50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    LaCrosse Wisconsin
    Posts
    778
    I've never had a cop pull me over and then say. "I just wanted to tell you I love your driving skills" Now that 99% pf the police are caged in their cars rather than walking a beat it's only to be expected that most of our interactions will be negative. Not saying they aren't good people. It's just the way it works out.
    I carry to protect myself and my loved ones from the BG's. Not to solve societies problems. That said: if more carried the deterrent would only have a positive overall effect on those problems.

  11. #101
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    Posts
    1,393
    Quote Originally Posted by Maverickx50 View Post
    I've never had a cop pull me over and then say. "I just wanted to tell you I love your driving skills" Now that 99% pf the police are caged in their cars rather than walking a beat it's only to be expected that most of our interactions will be negative. Not saying they aren't good people. It's just the way it works out.
    But they might tell you you're super cool!

    357and40 likes this.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  12. #102
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    20,046
    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    Innocent is not a finding of any court.
    I beg to differ on this one little part of your post, but agree with the rest. A "Certificate of Actual Innocence" can be granted by the court and it the most powerful way to gain expungement.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  13. #103
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    3,062
    Interesting Sixto... Never seen or heard of one. I may need to do some research on that one. Perhaps it's unique to the individual state.

    Spuk!

  14. #104
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shelby County TN
    Posts
    11,129
    Quote Originally Posted by canav844 View Post
    I trust nobody by default, just because they have a badge does not make them anymore honest than anyone else in my mind.

    They are human, and as such they don't get my blind trust; but then again nor does anyone else until they've proved they earned it, and even then.
    I agree wholeheartedly with these statements.

    Of the limited run ins with the law I have had, I would say they are pretty evenly divided between good and bad with one diversion to the very bad end of the spectrum. I do not trust nor do I distrust police. I just try my best not to interact with them if possible.

    And by the way, I was one for a short time before injury forced me out of that career path. In that short time I knew good cops and I knew several that I was very sure were dirty. One in particular that I hated to even be in the same room with took great pleasure in harassing any civilian who had a gun or who didn't bow to his righteous authority immediately. That's the kind of cop who gives all others a bad name.
    ,=====o00o _
    //___l__,\____\,__
    l_--- \___l---[]lllllll[]
    (o)_)-o- (o)_)--o-)_)

  15. #105
    VIP Member
    Array atctimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NSA Headquarters
    Posts
    6,546
    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    Innocent is not a finding of any court. A person may be found "NOT GUILTY". The jury or judge has decided that the prosicutor has failed to meet the standard of proof in a criminal case. That being "BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT". No where is it decided in a court case that the defendant didnt commit the crime. If during a trial, or after a trial based on an appeal a person is proven to be innocent the court must dismiss charges without prejudice, and the judge order all records be expunged.
    It seems to me you're missing something. In the United States we ARE innocent until PROVEN guilty.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

Page 7 of 9 FirstFirst ... 3456789 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

concealed carry forum hates cops
,

dc police off duty carry

,
juveniles not trusting police officers
,

not trusting cops

,
not trusting cops quotes
,

not trusting police

,
people not trusting cops anymore
,

trusting cops

,

trusting law enforcement

,
trusting police officers
,
us citizens not trusting vops
,
why are people not trusting of police
Click on a term to search for related topics.