July 17th, 2011 11:02 AM
Let's see how cost effective this is when the diesel bills go through the roof and a few firefighters get injured or beat the snot out of a few muggers, generating huge workers comp claims and civil rights lawsuits.
"Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18
Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
Paramedics With Guns Scare People!
July 17th, 2011 11:31 AM
As a career union firefighter, I have never heard something as stupid as this......it sounds like they don't want to hire enough police officers to do the job......
"A free people ought to be armed." - George Washington
July 17th, 2011 11:57 AM
Most likely they can't afford to hire enough police officers.
Originally Posted by JohnWFD
July 17th, 2011 02:01 PM
Originally Posted by SIXTO
LOL, first you say "That is such a load of crap", then you say, "Yes, cities and towns are going broke". Well, um, excuse me for being so gosh-darned stupid, but the last time I looked, the vast majority of expenses for every single city and town was public sector union employees pay and benefits. End of story. You can choose to live in a fairy tale world at your own peril. But the money is running out. Liberals will always deny there is any problem, which totally baffles me and defies all common sense and logic.
And i really love your comment about "management and elected leaders are incompetent". LOL, that's hilarious. In Rhode Island, our "management and elected leaders" are directly in bed with union leaders. Heck, many of our "management and elected leaders" still work for unions. My state - Rhode Island - has effectively been run by public sector unions for over 40 years. And let's see, how are things in Rhode Island nowadays. Hmmmm, well, CNBC recently ranked RI as the very WORST state for business out of all 50. I place the blame directly on short-sighted union/elected leaders who sold taxpayers out, to buy votes from union employees. Our unfunded liabilities are among the highest in the country - oh, and so are our firefighting costs per capita.
And then you say, "All that is of no matter." No, all of this matters very much - this is THE reason that DC is taking these actions.
Do I agree with using FF as LEO's? No way, it's crazy....... But get ready for lots more struggles and strife, as this is only gonna get worse. The crap is just starting to hit the fan. And I predict many more off-the-wall 'solutions' such as that proposed in DC.
'Be careful, even in small matters' - Miyamoto Musashi
July 17th, 2011 02:21 PM
Back on topic...
While fire fighters have certainly been targeted in the past, there always seemed to be a bit of respect directed their way by the thugs of society. After all, thugs need fire fighters too, when their rival gangs set fire to their "crib." Same with EMS...you need them to patch you up when you get shot.
If fire fighters are now seen to be the "po po" that restraint will be gone, and it will be open season on them. Axes and hoses are no match for bullets.
The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, LCP (2), Mini 14; Marlin 336 .30-30; Mossberg 500
July 17th, 2011 03:26 PM
Some real good post on this thread.
Bottom line, assigning city employs to do some thing they are not trained and equipped for is criminal and should be prosecuted in a court of law.
NOT LIVING IN FEAR, JUST READY!!!
I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness,
nor the arrow for its swiftness,
nor the warrior for his glory.
I love only that which they defend.
July 17th, 2011 03:44 PM
Wait until the first FF gets hurt then see what happens. As an EMT if they said I had to do patrols like these, I'd find a new job.
"Let not your heart be troubled." John 14:1
USN Retired Vietnam/Desert Shield/Desert Storm
July 18th, 2011 01:41 AM
I never said you were stupid, but your reading comprehension could use a little work. My point is the rank and file pee on cop or FF isnt the problem. If you read what I actually posted instead of trying to make it say what you want it to, I agree with most of what you said; except where the blame lays. That would be like me blaming the health care "crisis" on the insurance salesman.
Originally Posted by Chevy-SS
Oh yeah, while you're looking at these things, check out any companies expenses. Pay and benefits to employees are always the most expensive part of conducting business, thats not news.
Back on topic....
Last edited by SIXTO; July 18th, 2011 at 10:44 AM.
"Just blame Sixto"
July 18th, 2011 11:53 AM
Well, to start with, that big old red truck burns a heck of a lot of fuel. Are you willing to foot the additional fuel expense for a "show of force"?
Originally Posted by muddy
Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid...
"For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield
July 18th, 2011 12:07 PM
Isn't DC where the mayor said: "aside from the increase in homicides, DC had a low crime rate." With logic like that does anything really surprise you?
Courage is endurance for one moment more…
Hollowpoints might expand, but bullets won't shrink.
July 18th, 2011 12:45 PM
Washington D.C. is the most heavily policed real estate in the United States. MPD has about 3,600 sworn officers. On top of that you have the federal presence. You have U.S. Capitol Police, GSA Police, U.S. Park Police, Secret Service Uniformed Division, FBI Police, Not to mention Metro Transit Police and even the Washington Suburban Sanitary Commission Police. And there are several more departments belonging to various goverment agencies I can't remember off the top of my head.
MPD has 62 officers per 10,000 residents. That is the highest rate in the United States. That is not counting all of the federal officers having jurisdiction in the city.
And now they say they need firefighters to supplement the officers.
Looks to me like maybe they need to rethink how they are doing things there.
As far as the overall financial situation, blame it on the politicians. I got an email the otehr day from a guy I had trained in communications years ago who is now working the street. The county council is now trying to destroy the collective bargaining power of the F.O.P. there. They are trying to reduce the disability pensions, increase insurance premiums and copays, and make scheduling and schedule changes an absolute right of management to the point they can change an officers shift or district assignment with no notice. They are also doubling up the radios between 0400-0800 so they can pay three fewer dispatchers during that time. And of course the unions representing the sworn and civilian members of the department have all accepted furloughs and skipped negotiated cost of living adjustments from their contracts.
Now the funny thing is while the county was flush with money they had no problem with more than 3/4 of the officers retiring doing so on disability (66 2/3% of salary tax free for life) while neighboring jurisdictions were retiring less than 10% on disability. After watching Ladder 49 the council had no problem dropping full retirement for the career firefighters from twenty five years (60% of final base salary taxable) to twenty years. They sure wanted the F.O.P. and I.A.F.F. endorsements.
And now the politicians have to pay for those votes they bought. This is also a big part of why I moved out of there when I did.
Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis
July 19th, 2011 10:54 AM
No that was the last one(Marion Crackhead Barry). Now he serves on the city council for Ward 8 no less, which is not really a surprise. He fits right in there.
Originally Posted by The Old Anglo
"My God David, We're a Civilized society."
"Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
-The Mist (2007)
July 19th, 2011 04:24 PM
Makes about as much sense as calling for a LEO when your house is on fire!
You can educate ignorance, you can't fix stupid
Retired DE Trooper, SA XD40 SC, S&W 2" Airweight
dukalmighty & Pure Kustom Black Ops Pro "Trooper" Holsters, DE CCDW and LEOSA Permits, Vietnam Vet 68-69 Pleiku
July 29th, 2011 11:03 AM
July 29th, 2011 11:15 AM
This whole problem can be attributed to one thing...
PISS POOR MANAGEMENT.
I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.
AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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