WROL???

This is a discussion on WROL??? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Cold Shot So you guys believe that in the next few years large parts of America will turn to anarchy? Doubtful I ...

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  1. #16
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    So you guys believe that in the next few years large parts of America will turn to anarchy?

    Doubtful
    I sincerely hope that you are right, but just in case you are wrong I am trying to be prepared.
    another reason for preparedness is natural disasters like hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, floods.
    do you want to be like those poor people in NOLA after katrina? dependent on help that is delayed or never coming?
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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Why? because we are to big to fail. It happened in the 60s. It could happen again. Only this time I fear on a much larger scale. Remember everyone is connected now a days.

    To answer the OP question Yes on all accounts.
    No sir. There was no anarchy in the 60s. Where in the world do you get that from?

    At most there were isolated riots in small geographic areas involving very tiny numbers of people as a proportion of the population. Food, fuel, law enforcement, courts, government at every level continued to function. Transportation continued normally and actually greatly improved as airport projects and highway projects were completed.

    Anarchy is far far too strong a description for the times.
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    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConcealedG30 View Post
    Without Rule Of Law

    Do you believe it will happen in the next few years? Probably not
    Are you prepared or preparing for it? In some ways, yes
    What are some of your preperations? Lots of ammo, food and water, though I need to work on ALL of the above.

    My short version is I believe it is inevitable with our countries current path.
    Mine is bold.

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    No sir. There was no anarchy in the 60s. Where in the world do you get that from?

    At most there were isolated riots in small geographic areas involving very tiny numbers of people as a proportion of the population. Food, fuel, law enforcement, courts, government at every level continued to function. Transportation continued normally and actually greatly improved as airport projects and highway projects were completed.

    Anarchy is far far too strong a description for the times.
    First off I said it would be much worse in todays age because of connectivity.

    Anarchy (from Greek: ἀναρχίᾱ anarchíā, "without ruler") may refer to any of several political states, and has been variously defined by sources. Most often, the term "anarchy" describes the simple absence of publicly recognized government or enforced political authority.[1][2] When used in this sense, anarchy may[3] or may not[4] imply political disorder or lawlessness within a society. In another sense, anarchy may not refer to a complete lack of authority or political organization, but instead refer to a social state characterized by a lack of a state, ruler, or libertarianism

    Please see the bolded. I think Riots are a simple form of anarchy. So I have to disagree with you hopyard
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  6. #20
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    No sir. There was no anarchy in the 60s. Where in the world do you get that from?

    At most there were isolated riots in small geographic areas involving very tiny numbers of people as a proportion of the population. Food, fuel, law enforcement, courts, government at every level continued to function. Transportation continued normally and actually greatly improved as airport projects and highway projects were completed.

    Anarchy is far far too strong a description for the times.
    while geographically small the riots of the '60s were extremely violent and disruptive in the affected areas, some places like Newark NJ have never fully recovered from the days of anarchy there. Sorry but I don't buy your view of what happened back then.
    google newark riots for more info

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    First off I said it would be much worse in todays age because of connectivity.

    Anarchy (from Greek: ἀναρχίᾱ anarchíā, "without ruler") may refer to any of several political states, and has been variously defined by sources. Most often, the term "anarchy" describes the simple absence of publicly recognized government or enforced political authority.
    The bold part is key. We were never there or anywhere near there. We had isolated incidents of rioting or protest. In each, there was quickly an overwhelming police presence. Courts and government continued to operate. Folks outside of the tiny affected areas went about their business as usual.

    That does not add up to anarchy. Certainly not to a collapse of LE activity.
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    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  8. #22
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    Here and there pockets of unrest may pop up, calamities may happen, but short of nuclear war there is no realistic chance of collapse of law enforcement.
    Really? Would you call the Rodney King riots a collapse of law enforcement?
    I would.

    In my town of 1260 people, there is ONE officer per shift. ONE. I have to call for assistance if I have a car wreck that blocks the highway that runs through town.
    Most citys in this county are like mine.

    At any one time, in our county of approx. 56,000 thousand people, there are a total of maybe 9 officers on shift. In the big city that has their own force, a population of 26,000 there may be 6-8 officers on shift.

    Now, we know that most people will not participate in any stupid displays of anarchy. Most, being law abiding would stay home and protect themselves. On the other hand if just 1 scant percent of people decided to go ballistic for whatever reason, that would be over 500 hundred people tearing things up, with maybe a half dozen officers to stop them.

    I'm not a mathematician, but those odds suck.

    Here in Arkansas we are limited by law to 1 officer per 1000 population. That works because most people just want to go on with their lives and be left alone.

    When those people cant go to Walmart and get food, gas, or whatever it is they are used to getting, that 1 to 1000 ration isnt going to work...and law enforcement will be non existant.

    Those that are under the illusion that the cops will keep a lid on things will be the most unprepared of all. And lets not forget...they did such a fine job during Katrina down in New Orleans right?
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  9. #23
    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    I sincerely hope that you are right, but just in case you are wrong I am trying to be prepared.
    another reason for preparedness is natural disasters like hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, floods.
    do you want to be like those poor people in NOLA after katrina? dependent on help that is delayed or never coming?
    New Orleans after Katrina is a good example of WROL, but judging by the OP and some other posts, it seems like we're talking about something much more widespread, longer lasting, and more severe, and this is supposed to happen within the next five years.

    I still say highly unlikely. What type of event would trigger this? Natural disasters like hurricanes and earthquakes could start it on a small scale, but they won't affect the whole country or even the significant majority of the country. It would take something like Yellowstone erupting, California dropping into the Pacific, or a sudden ice age to cause more than half of the country to go into WROL. Those events may be possible in the next 2000 years, but there is no indication of it happening in the next 2-3 years.

    A major terrorist attack that could shut off all utilities on the East or West coast would probably lead to a period of anarchy, but it's not going to happen.

    A complete financial meltdown like Zimbabwe would probably be the most likely event, and maybe it'll happen in the next few years, but I still doubt it. I am not optimistic about the U.S. economy right now, but I still don't think we're going to go completely under. A depression may occur, but you guys are talking about complete WROL, so I don't think a depression will lead to complete lawlessness. It would have to be a collapse.

    The government gaining more and more power is another cause, but it won't happen in the next few years. Maybe we're on pace for bad times in 40 to 50 years when oil and water will be more scarce, but there isn't an imminent threat.

    To all those who are prepared, more power to you. Do what you feel is best to survive. I'm just saying that a major meltdown or catastrophe resulting in anarchy on a large scale is not likely.
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  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    while geographically small the riots of the '60s were extremely violent and disruptive in the affected areas, some places like Newark NJ have never fully recovered from the days of anarchy there. Sorry but I don't buy your view of what happened back then.
    google newark riots for more info
    What do you think "my view" of what happened is? I actually stated what you wrote. That there were riots in isolated geographic areas. Yes, they were often very violent.

    However--- There was always a strong police response. People were herded, rounded up, jailed, tried, convicted. That is not the definition of anarchy.

    During nearly all the riots if not all, the geographic area involved was extremely limited. A few square blocks at most. If you were not in the area, life continued as normal. That is not the definition of anarchy.

    Let's keep the vocabulary we use realistic, and not inflate the nature of events; events which most of the readers here were not old enough to have first hand knowledge of.
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    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  11. #25
    Member Array ConcealedG30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    So you guys believe that in the next few years large parts of America will turn to anarchy?

    Doubtful
    I believe that when people are put in desperate situations they will take desperate measures. Those whom prepare for that which we hope doesn't happen will be far better off when it comes to actually having to handle an adverse situation.

    Read the Bible, Jesus calls us his children, and he also refers to us as sheep. Sheep aren't really known for thier intuative nature.

    In America we are sheltered from much of the violence in the world. We have a false sense of security

    These are facts. That being said some folks would call me an Extremeist. I'm cool with that. Those folks I call Sheep. BAHHH...

    The time frame we will never know.
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  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    What do you think "my view" of what happened is? I actually stated what you wrote. That there were riots in isolated geographic areas. Yes, they were often very violent.

    However--- There was always a strong police response. People were herded, rounded up, jailed, tried, convicted. That is not the definition of anarchy.

    During nearly all the riots if not all, the geographic area involved was extremely limited. A few square blocks at most. If you were not in the area, life continued as normal. That is not the definition of anarchy.

    Let's keep the vocabulary we use realistic, and not inflate the nature of events; events which most of the readers here were not old enough to have first hand knowledge of.
    Your right about not be old enough to be there. But my father was in the guard, and was in Detroit. So here is a question for you, would shooting at police and the national guard be anarchy? In my book it is.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I'm with Harryball.

    Because it is localized, is Anarchy any less Anarchy within the area it exists. I say no. Watts in 65' was sure as heck Anarchy. Until control was regained, it sure seemed like Anarchy to those of us that were there. While the courts and other governmental units functioned, they were outside of the affected area.

    In regards to the term Anarchy, here is the face sheet (the cover was lost over time) of a magazine I bought, depicting the riots/Anarchy, for sentimental reasons, a few months after Watts. The title is clear.
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  14. #28
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    I believe that there will be civil disobedience in certain segments of the country. However, I believe those will be isolated and probably perpetrated by those who are lawless to begin with. In places where the POS reside who are a part of the welfare and entitlement groups, when the money runs out they will not know what to do.
    Since theft is already part of their DNA, programed into them thru genereations of goverment handouts, they will do what they have always done; riot, steal, and do whatever they can until they are either appeased or put down.

    From the inner city, to the mountains of Appalachia, those on the bubble of exisistance will be the ones who act out.

    We have seen the warnings for several years, with things like copper theft and shop lifting, plus home envasions on the increase.

    However, I do not think it will be on an apocolyptic scale as some believe.
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  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    I'm with Harryball.

    Because it is localized, is Anarchy any less Anarchy within the area it exists. I say no. Watts in 65' was sure as heck Anarchy. Until control was regained, it sure seemed like Anarchy to those of us that were there. While the courts and other governmental units functioned, they were outside of the affected area.

    In regards to the term Anarchy, here is the face sheet (the cover was lost over time) of a magazine I bought, depicting the riots/Anarchy, for sentimental reasons, a few months after Watts. The title is clear.
    Where we are differing is stems from the initial post-- WROL. Even in the worst of riots there was never a global absence of the rule of law. People were arrested, people were tried. You didn't have a wholesale absence of LEs from the force and no force. You had isolated horrid incidence of violence.

    I interpreted the thread as relating to a total breakdown. NOLA comes closest to that in modern history but outside of the immediate vicinity law and order prevailed. Moreover, in hindsight, it turned out that many of the stories of horror about what happened at the stadium or the convention center turned out to myth.

    Yes, locally there was some anarchy, but there was never a total absence of law enforcement; again outside of some narrow boundaries.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  16. #30
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    I would agree with that.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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