Flash Mobs pose challenge to police....

[goldshellback]

When a 'peaceful' assembly (like the WTO protests in Seattle) turns into a riot, then it becomes criminal. I was in Seattle when that particular incident took place. There, like many other mob/riots, it was a peaceful assembly UNTIL a seperate group of 'them' took to violence AND the local thug population 'joined in' to loot and piliage because they 'could'. Stupid and dangerous for everyone around.

In the case of the 'flash mobs', in context the the subject of this thread, these are young thugs using cell phones and social media outlets to 'organize' a 'hit' using 'overwhelming' numbers to get away with cirminal mischief/looting/shoplifting/etc. Very much a 'shock-and-awe' style of criminal behavior. I don't believe deadly force would be justified in a massed group invading a 7-11 for all the food and drink they could piliage. Now, a massed (if loosely 'orginized') group 'assembling' outside a state fair to beat-down innocent folks as they left 'might' be another story........

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[MattInFla]

Let's keep the threat on topic, please. Political protests and police responses to them are not relevant to the thread.

Thanks!

Matt

[MattInFla]

As for the 7-11 flash mobs:

[Guns and more]

New technology calls for new response ideas.

If the mobs can communicate with each other via Twitter or Faceook,
what's to stop the cops from looking at the same places?
Get there first.

[Guantes]

Mainly the manpower to dedicate someone to that media and/or establish ties to those within the media who would notify them of such happenings.

[Pistology]

Ive read the constitution and bill of rights and I did not see in there where it says you have to get a permit. And become "criminals" I would hardly call people participating in a peaceful rally who stand in a PUBLIC road or on PUBLIC sidewalk "Criminals". The constitution reads its not only our right but our duty to assemble and let our displeasure with the government be known. I fail to see how our countrymen deserve to be shot with rubber bullets and tasered for standing up to tyranny. But Im sure youll rationalize your behavior somehow.

Your right to mob protest ends at my individual right to walk down the street free from blockage by peaceful assemblies to my permitted protest or wherever I peaceably choose to go. By your example, couched in arguing for the Constitution, the biggest mob rule - not the Constitution - becomes the law of the land.

My main concern with the growing phenomenon of flash mob is the Constitutionality of BART's - basically a government contractor under authority of "agency" - shutting down cell phone service because their quazi police are getting antsy about criminal mobs - just when people need most to communicate.

Browsing Facebook pages or "tweets" that are available to the public is generally acceptable, but breaching personal information without a warrant or shutting down cellphone service in anticipation of a crime encroaches on constitutional rights, says Gene Policinski, executive director of the First Amendment Center at Vanderbilt University in Nashville.

"We open up a dangerous area if we start empowering agencies to prevent us from speaking because it might down the road lead to something else," he says.

The proper response is for police presence in force where these attacks are most likely to happen. When they do, then police exercise their power to be the bigger, better-equipped, better-trained, and Constitutionally-mandated boss of the block until restoration of regular flow.

[dlbrown75]

Police Trap Peaceful Protesters in Denver - YouTube

Miami Police Shot Protester, then laugh about it. - YouTube

IS THIS WHAT DEMOCRACY LOOKS LIKE? WTO - YouTube

Heres a few that I found quickly.

[Pistology]

New technology calls for new response ideas.

If the mobs can communicate with each other via Twitter or Faceook,
what's to stop the cops from looking at the same places?
Get there first.

Mainly the manpower to dedicate someone to that media and/or establish ties to those within the media who would notify them of such happenings.

Government agencies are already doing this under the Patriot Act, and other Constitutionaly-questionable means. Technically, a program could scan local communications for sudden, high-volume, reference to an address or store name. Better, and more Constitutionally sound, is police presence in trouble areas. Police have the force and mobility to respond in force if nearby. It's a matter of dedication of resources to prioritized threats, OMO.

[mcp1810]

This may bring paddy wagons back in style.

Montgomery County Police does not use "paddy wagons". They find the term politically incorrect and insulting to those of Irish descent. They have "Transport Units"

dlbrown75 your right to peaceful assembly ends where my right to walk down a public street begins. The freedoms in our country are not just for those that want to protest stuff, they are for everyone. That is why the government is allowed to restrict times and locations of protests through permits. To make sure your exercise of your rights does not interfere with my exercise of mine.

[Guantes]

My apologies to those of Irish descent that were offended.

[Tzadik]

Flash mobs are not protests


I'm wondering if warning shots are actually something to pursue in a case like this.
I'm sure that in most places it would still be illegal, but would it not be practical?
pepper gas grenade would still be considered assault in many places.

How to weigh the penalties for lost business against the legal penalties for assualt or unlawful discharge of a firearm?

Maybe time for some new laws allowing shop owners to protect themselves.

[21bubba]

Flash mobs are not protests


I'm wondering if warning shots are actually something to pursue in a case like this.
I'm sure that in most places it would still be illegal, but would it not be practical?
pepper gas grenade would still be considered assault in many places.

How to weigh the penalties for lost business against the legal penalties for assualt or unlawful discharge of a firearm?

Maybe time for some new laws allowing shop owners to protect themselves.

Yep, new laws, thats the ticket.

[Harryball]

Flash mobs are not protests


I'm wondering if warning shots are actually something to pursue in a case like this.
I'm sure that in most places it would still be illegal, but would it not be practical?
pepper gas grenade would still be considered assault in many places.

How to weigh the penalties for lost business against the legal penalties for assualt or unlawful discharge of a firearm?

Maybe time for some new laws allowing shop owners to protect themselves.

Warning shots into or near a crowd of people, REALLY, not this again.

[Tzadik]

I'm just saying in a flash mob situation one into the display case next to me without good chance of ricochet would be a hell of a lot better than losing my entire store or injuring someone who showed no threat other than overwhelming numbers. I'm generally in the no warning shot camp, but flash mobs do have me keeping my mind open to that possibility.

What other suggestion would you make? As I said I'm keeping my mind open.

[mcp1810]

There is a solution for shopkeepers, but it would cost $$ and convenience. Basic access control systems like man trap entrance doors and turnstile exits. Not very customer friendly, but it would give the counter person the ability to limit the number of people entering the store yet allow everyone inside safe exit as required by fire codes. When fifty people show up the counter person could simply limit losses by only allowing in five people at a time.