Defensive Carry banner

Flash Mobs pose challenge to police....

3K views 34 replies 20 participants last post by  obxned 
#1 ·
#2 ·
I've seen videos of this but I was curious what the legality(in general) would be from the store owners perspective. My gut says "no" but given the number of subjects would a store owner be justified in opening up then. Its a mob mentality and could turn bad in an instant....then again it might not and opening fire on then could do more damage to the store owners health than if he just let them have their way.
 
#3 ·
I would like like to know why police use potentially lethal force on peaceful groups when they assemble to voice their displeasure with a person, group of people or event. Dont U.S citizens have the right to peacefully assemble as given to us by the constitution. Please dont make me post videos proving that police incite violence not the assembled group.
 
#4 ·
They have the right to peacefully assemble, but they don't have the right to disrupt other people's lives. When they block traffic, or cause damage to private property they become criminals, not protesters. Also, in some cities groups over a certain size must have a permit in order to assemble.
 
#24 ·
Montgomery County Police does not use "paddy wagons". They find the term politically incorrect and insulting to those of Irish descent. They have "Transport Units" :smile:

dlbrown75 your right to peaceful assembly ends where my right to walk down a public street begins. The freedoms in our country are not just for those that want to protest stuff, they are for everyone. That is why the government is allowed to restrict times and locations of protests through permits. To make sure your exercise of your rights does not interfere with my exercise of mine.
 
#11 ·
In our area and many others in Florida the State and County Department of Corrections have large busses that are capable of transporting large numbers of prisoners to correctional facilites.

Pepper Spray and rubber bullets have always been a favorite option in my mind. K-9's and mounted units can be very effective when used properly....

....oh but wait maybe it's just a peaceful assembly in Radio Shack or Wal Mart:rolleyes:.
 
#12 ·
In our area and many others in Florida the State and County Department of Corrections have large busses that are capable of transporting large numbers of prisoners to correctional facilites.

Pepper Spray and rubber bullets have always been a favorite option in my mind. K-9's and mounted units can be very effective when used properly.... ....oh but wait maybe it's just a peaceful assembly in Radio Shack or Wal Mart:rolleyes:.
Well, those are peaceful weapons too as opposed to the alternative. :biggrin2:
 
#16 ·
When a 'peaceful' assembly (like the WTO protests in Seattle) turns into a riot, then it becomes criminal. I was in Seattle when that particular incident took place. There, like many other mob/riots, it was a peaceful assembly UNTIL a seperate group of 'them' took to violence AND the local thug population 'joined in' to loot and piliage because they 'could'. Stupid and dangerous for everyone around.

In the case of the 'flash mobs', in context the the subject of this thread, these are young thugs using cell phones and social media outlets to 'organize' a 'hit' using 'overwhelming' numbers to get away with cirminal mischief/looting/shoplifting/etc. Very much a 'shock-and-awe' style of criminal behavior. I don't believe deadly force would be justified in a massed group invading a 7-11 for all the food and drink they could piliage. Now, a massed (if loosely 'orginized') group 'assembling' outside a state fair to beat-down innocent folks as they left 'might' be another story........
 
#23 ·
Mainly the manpower to dedicate someone to that media and/or establish ties to those within the media who would notify them of such happenings.
Government agencies are already doing this under the Patriot Act, and other Constitutionaly-questionable means. Technically, a program could scan local communications for sudden, high-volume, reference to an address or store name. Better, and more Constitutionally sound, is police presence in trouble areas. Police have the force and mobility to respond in force if nearby. It's a matter of dedication of resources to prioritized threats, OMO.
 
#26 ·
Flash mobs are not protests


I'm wondering if warning shots are actually something to pursue in a case like this.
I'm sure that in most places it would still be illegal, but would it not be practical?
pepper gas grenade would still be considered assault in many places.

How to weigh the penalties for lost business against the legal penalties for assualt or unlawful discharge of a firearm?

Maybe time for some new laws allowing shop owners to protect themselves.
 
#29 ·
I'm just saying in a flash mob situation one into the display case next to me without good chance of ricochet would be a hell of a lot better than losing my entire store or injuring someone who showed no threat other than overwhelming numbers. I'm generally in the no warning shot camp, but flash mobs do have me keeping my mind open to that possibility.

What other suggestion would you make? As I said I'm keeping my mind open.
 
#34 ·
IF I were you, I would re-think shooting a display case or any other item in a store. Matts suggestion about the pepper spray is one of the better options. Warning shots are not a option here, If all they are doing is stealing. Im not sure about VA law, but in MI you cannot protect property. You could also be charged with discharge of a firearm. Unless your life is in danger, keep the gun in its holster.
 
#30 ·
There is a solution for shopkeepers, but it would cost $$ and convenience. Basic access control systems like man trap entrance doors and turnstile exits. Not very customer friendly, but it would give the counter person the ability to limit the number of people entering the store yet allow everyone inside safe exit as required by fire codes. When fifty people show up the counter person could simply limit losses by only allowing in five people at a time.
 
#31 ·
counter-flash mob

when area store owners see a group larger than normally associated with a store forming,
they could lock up their store and with some of their workers, head on over to the 'hit' store and upon entering--block the exits with their bodies.
now the mob is 'trapped' and this should give the police time to respond. knowing that the longer the delay for the law to show up the more the
risk of pushing and shoving from the mob...fast response time is critical.

i would hope that some of the counter-mobbers are lawfully armed but there should be no display of, nor should any force be used unless
the mob initiates it. at that point they have made it into an assault/ robbery and there are rules already in place for that.

isolated stores may have to resort to locking doors and partitions. get creative--
perhaps pieces of flooring that flip over and have thin tubes of crazy glue attached.
and a bear trap at the exit...
 
#32 ·
With response time always being the enemy, this new style of maggotry will probably have to be fixed by the way things are handled at the store. Whenever new technology comes out, it's only a matter of time before people start to abuse it. And solutions to these problems always seem to be at the cost of the store owners or taxpayers.
 
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#33 ·
I'll bet the flash mobs wouldn't do too well in China...or in Texas...I'm just sayin'...:rolleyes:
 
#35 ·
Lots of high definition surveillance cameras, a police department willing to identify and arrest the mob members, and a prosecutor willing to go for the maximum would help.

Rather than charge each with shoplifting, a misdemeanor, charge the entire group with strong-armed robbery, a felony.
 
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