This is a discussion on Run in with one of Rock Hill PDs Narcotics Teams. within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by SIXTO So, what right was taken away here? Idiots will be idiots that will never change. But the problem is, idiots usually ...
But on a similar note... It seems that any place a LEO makes a traffic stop just happens to all of a sudden be "a known drug area!"
I would like to see that challenged someday in court.
Because it would seem to me, the rational often used by LEO's seems to be any place in public is "a known drug area." I've seen LEO's really push the area farther and farther away from actual known drug areas where all of a sudden, any stops 5 blocks away from a known drug house is now considered to be "the known drug area."
You can't tell me there aren't LEO's who try to push that as far as they can get away with.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
Hey OP, glad your pain in the ass started this great debate for the rest of us to learn from :-)
There is really no debate, and that is what makes these kinds of threads silly. Its more about what is and what people think it is, facts and reality be damned.
"Just blame Sixto"
If you do not have an open mind then any discussion would be silly.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -1792, James Madison
There are always too many Democratic, Republican and never enough U.S. congressmen.
I know its different everywhere, even between police depts in the same county.
When I am on patrol, and I stop to check you out just because, I'll ask a few questions, and I'll generally know pretty quickly if you are up to no good or not.
I will not ask to search your car. I see it as a violation of personal freedom. I just dont see the worth in it. If you are a scumbag, it'll just be a matter of time until I catch you screwing up.
If I have a reasonable suspicion that you are up to no good,are a person of intrest and I can argue that point in court,then I might ask if I can search your vehicle. If you are dumb enough to say "yes" and I find anything, anything that is not legal, then, I will use it against you. It dosent matter if you knew about it or not, if you are in the vehicle, its your problem.
Some people will say "yes" in the hopes that you will think that they have nothing to hide and move on...but it very rarely happens that way. You can not imagine how many people voluntarily submit that get caught on something that will cause them lots of time, grief and a good part of their paycheck...even when the KNOW that they will get busted for what they have in their.
The naieve among us will say, " go ahead, I have nothing to hide" and in their mind they are goodguys and they really think that they are OK. Thinking that they are doing their civic duty by voluntarily submitting they are even cheery about it. That is because they are ignorant of the process, having never really used it, they have never been in jail, they have never called the cops for anything and their total life of crime may be a speeding ticket that they got years ago. They are generally good people, they associate with good people, they have never had anything to fear from the cops or the law, because they stay within it.
What they do not understand, is that the cop does not know you from Adam and he really dosent care to. They can be wickedly efficient at doing their job and when you do submit to a search, they do not care that you said YES if they find something, it wont matter, they will do what they have to do.
They wont care that you bought a used vehicle, that you have been driving it for six months and that you never looked under the seat, that you bought it from a friend at work and his son drove it most of the time. You probably didnt know that the kid was a party animal and that him and a few friends spent their Fridays nights drinking beer and smoking some weed on the bluff overlooking the city. You werent there when the Police drove up behind them and asked for I.D.s and one of the kids flicked a half smoked joint under the seat so that if he did get pulled out of the vehicle and searched, they wouldnt find it.
They wont care that when they lift the matt on the floorboard and they find a pill, that it might even be a prescription pill for your blood pressure that you hastily dropped on the way to work, so you just took another one and forgot about that one.
They wont care the the handgun they find under the seat, is yours and you have a permit, but that your son, a minor, was pulled over because he wasnt talking on his cellphone and not paying attention to the speed limit. You taught your son to be respectful to his elders, that the Police are your friends, and to just do what he is told to do. Thinking that he was doing the right thing by consenting to a search, because he had nothing to hide, he says "yeah...go ahead and search". They find the handgun, the minor-in-possesion law leaves NO leeway to the Judge to take the facts into consideration and the LAW is written to include a mandantory sentance. Never mind that your kid was a straight A student, the quarterback star of the highschool football team that was being looked at by several colleges, he now has a felony record and he can kiss his future goodby because of your mistake.
They wont care that they find a rusty handgun that is stored underneath your spare tire and had been for 15 years, when they scrape off the rust, run the number and it comes up stolen. The fact that you are a Grandma that never fired a gun, didnt know it was there, and you swear up and down you never saw it,wont mean much when you are being handcuffed and stuffed in the back of a patrol car.
These are but 3 examples that I used because they have happened right here in small town USA, where everyone know everyone and when a dog gets run over in the street, 6 different people call you are work to tell you the bad news.
When you bought a used car...did you go over it with a fine toothed comb or at least give it a good vacuuming?
Do you know who your kids are driving around with when they ask for the car keys?
If you dropped a pill bottle on the floor, did you count them to make sure you got them all? Did you know how many were in there?
Did you remove your guns from your car before you let your kids or someone you know borrow it?
These are but a few reasons that I say here, and I teach in CHL classes...Never EVER let the Police search your car. NEVER. Not today, not tommorrow, not next week.
If I arrest you for any reason, I will search you car and anything in it that is illegal is evidence. I'll search it and I wont ask for your permission because I dont need it.
If you still want to voluntarily submit to a search of the vehicle because you're a good ole boy, then that is completley up to you, but if you do, dont whine about it if they find something in there that you didnt know about that can ruin your life or at the very least, cost you a small fortune prove your innocence.
I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.
AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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They had no reason other than he had parked in a parking lot. Guess what, that is what you do in a parking lot. Unless someone called in a suspicious vehicle or he was engaged in suspicious activity they did not have reasonable suspicion. Sorry, they over stepped and he should have checked them on it.
I've told officers, "you can search what you can see that is all that is allowed unless you have reasonable suspicion. Can you articulate the reasons that you feel the need to search my car?" They will either let you go or try to detain you long enough for K9 to arrive. If the detainment takes more than a reasonable amount of time you have the basis for a complaint and possibly more. It is commonly held that you can not be made to wait for K9 to arrive if it takes longer than the duration of the stop would normally take.
In other words just say no. If they are surfing they will leave. If they have reason they will articulate the reason and either start searching or have you wait for K9 to arrive. (K9s can sniff the exterior without a warrant.)
What the OP sees as a good encounter I see as a pointless intrusion.
I think they should have to put up signs stating that driving slow by area etc is cause to jack with you.
NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
A gun in the hand is a million times more valuable than a cop on the phone!
FL Concealed Weapon or Firearm Program
"Just blame Sixto"
You may not realize it because sometime you can't see the forest because of the trees but your us versus them mentality is showing and it is not a good thing.
Last edited by SIXTO; August 27th, 2011 at 01:59 PM. Reason: removed language infraction
Many of "BIG" city Cops have told many of people- DO NOT CONSENT - ; )
A Native Floridian = RARE
IT'S OUR RIGHTS>THEY WANT TO WRONG