Run in with one of Rock Hill PDs Narcotics Teams. - Page 6

Run in with one of Rock Hill PDs Narcotics Teams.

This is a discussion on Run in with one of Rock Hill PDs Narcotics Teams. within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by SIXTO So, what right was taken away here? Idiots will be idiots that will never change. But the problem is, idiots usually ...

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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    So, what right was taken away here?

    Idiots will be idiots that will never change. But the problem is, idiots usually don't play well together.

    Also, I know I'll be talking to a brick wall here, but the courts have ruled over and over again that a vehicle exhibiting suspicious behavior in an area known for drug transactions or abuse does constitute RAS for a stop. The search part has already been covered, consent was given, so its a non issue. I know some will want to argue that, and I understand some don't like that. But facts are facts, and to borrow from the annoying phrase thread, it is what it is.

    Have fun, and toodles to all.
    I agree with you 100%. And I think in this case, no way were the OP's rights being violated. LEO's made a simple request, OP consented, case closed. No violation of rights.

    But on a similar note... It seems that any place a LEO makes a traffic stop just happens to all of a sudden be "a known drug area!"

    I would like to see that challenged someday in court.

    Because it would seem to me, the rational often used by LEO's seems to be any place in public is "a known drug area." I've seen LEO's really push the area farther and farther away from actual known drug areas where all of a sudden, any stops 5 blocks away from a known drug house is now considered to be "the known drug area."

    You can't tell me there aren't LEO's who try to push that as far as they can get away with.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."


  2. #77
    Member Array Aiko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rolyat63 View Post
    Don't talk to cops part one

    Don't talk to cops part 2

    Reinforcing Hotguns is a Law School Prof (part 1) and a former police officer now in law school (part 2)

    These are fantastic points on NOT talking to police without legal council.

  3. #78
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    Hey OP, glad your pain in the ass started this great debate for the rest of us to learn from :-)

  4. #79
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    There is really no debate, and that is what makes these kinds of threads silly. Its more about what is and what people think it is, facts and reality be damned.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    There is really no debate, and that is what makes these kinds of threads silly. Its more about what is and what people think it is, facts and reality be damned.
    I have to differ about these threads being silly. If a person can read them with an open mind he can learn from both sides. Even if it is only how the other side thinks and comes to their conclusions you have learned something.
    If you do not have an open mind then any discussion would be silly.

    Michael
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  6. #81
    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I think one of the reasons a thread on this ............................is requesting permission to search, consent is never free and always coerced. TO think otherwise is to be naive.
    Hopyard,
    what in the world in happening? this is the second post of your that I agree with. that never happens. what is next dogs and cats living in sin togather? the world truly is at an end......
    "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -1792, James Madison
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  7. #82
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    I know its different everywhere, even between police depts in the same county.

    When I am on patrol, and I stop to check you out just because, I'll ask a few questions, and I'll generally know pretty quickly if you are up to no good or not.

    I will not ask to search your car. I see it as a violation of personal freedom. I just dont see the worth in it. If you are a scumbag, it'll just be a matter of time until I catch you screwing up.

    If I have a reasonable suspicion that you are up to no good,are a person of intrest and I can argue that point in court,then I might ask if I can search your vehicle. If you are dumb enough to say "yes" and I find anything, anything that is not legal, then, I will use it against you. It dosent matter if you knew about it or not, if you are in the vehicle, its your problem.

    Some people will say "yes" in the hopes that you will think that they have nothing to hide and move on...but it very rarely happens that way. You can not imagine how many people voluntarily submit that get caught on something that will cause them lots of time, grief and a good part of their paycheck...even when the KNOW that they will get busted for what they have in their.

    The naieve among us will say, " go ahead, I have nothing to hide" and in their mind they are goodguys and they really think that they are OK. Thinking that they are doing their civic duty by voluntarily submitting they are even cheery about it. That is because they are ignorant of the process, having never really used it, they have never been in jail, they have never called the cops for anything and their total life of crime may be a speeding ticket that they got years ago. They are generally good people, they associate with good people, they have never had anything to fear from the cops or the law, because they stay within it.

    What they do not understand, is that the cop does not know you from Adam and he really dosent care to. They can be wickedly efficient at doing their job and when you do submit to a search, they do not care that you said YES if they find something, it wont matter, they will do what they have to do.

    They wont care that you bought a used vehicle, that you have been driving it for six months and that you never looked under the seat, that you bought it from a friend at work and his son drove it most of the time. You probably didnt know that the kid was a party animal and that him and a few friends spent their Fridays nights drinking beer and smoking some weed on the bluff overlooking the city. You werent there when the Police drove up behind them and asked for I.D.s and one of the kids flicked a half smoked joint under the seat so that if he did get pulled out of the vehicle and searched, they wouldnt find it.

    They wont care that when they lift the matt on the floorboard and they find a pill, that it might even be a prescription pill for your blood pressure that you hastily dropped on the way to work, so you just took another one and forgot about that one.

    They wont care the the handgun they find under the seat, is yours and you have a permit, but that your son, a minor, was pulled over because he wasnt talking on his cellphone and not paying attention to the speed limit. You taught your son to be respectful to his elders, that the Police are your friends, and to just do what he is told to do. Thinking that he was doing the right thing by consenting to a search, because he had nothing to hide, he says "yeah...go ahead and search". They find the handgun, the minor-in-possesion law leaves NO leeway to the Judge to take the facts into consideration and the LAW is written to include a mandantory sentance. Never mind that your kid was a straight A student, the quarterback star of the highschool football team that was being looked at by several colleges, he now has a felony record and he can kiss his future goodby because of your mistake.

    They wont care that they find a rusty handgun that is stored underneath your spare tire and had been for 15 years, when they scrape off the rust, run the number and it comes up stolen. The fact that you are a Grandma that never fired a gun, didnt know it was there, and you swear up and down you never saw it,wont mean much when you are being handcuffed and stuffed in the back of a patrol car.

    These are but 3 examples that I used because they have happened right here in small town USA, where everyone know everyone and when a dog gets run over in the street, 6 different people call you are work to tell you the bad news.

    When you bought a used car...did you go over it with a fine toothed comb or at least give it a good vacuuming?
    Do you know who your kids are driving around with when they ask for the car keys?
    If you dropped a pill bottle on the floor, did you count them to make sure you got them all? Did you know how many were in there?
    Did you remove your guns from your car before you let your kids or someone you know borrow it?

    These are but a few reasons that I say here, and I teach in CHL classes...Never EVER let the Police search your car. NEVER. Not today, not tommorrow, not next week.

    If I arrest you for any reason, I will search you car and anything in it that is illegal is evidence. I'll search it and I wont ask for your permission because I dont need it.

    If you still want to voluntarily submit to a search of the vehicle because you're a good ole boy, then that is completley up to you, but if you do, dont whine about it if they find something in there that you didnt know about that can ruin your life or at the very least, cost you a small fortune prove your innocence.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    There is really no debate, and that is what makes these kinds of threads silly. Its more about what is and what people think it is, facts and reality be damned.
    So, there is only one viewpoint, and that's yours? Wow.

    In my experience, when someone says, "there's no debate", there most certainly is.
    Last edited by Bombsaway; August 27th, 2011 at 09:26 AM.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    Standing at the pulpit and shouting "Don't let them search!" and yet it appears that all ended well.

    Strange how that happens.
    I work with cops everyday I'm at work. I am usually there before they are and backing them up while they wait on other POs. I still say, don't give these type of cops permission for anything.

    They had no reason other than he had parked in a parking lot. Guess what, that is what you do in a parking lot. Unless someone called in a suspicious vehicle or he was engaged in suspicious activity they did not have reasonable suspicion. Sorry, they over stepped and he should have checked them on it.

    I've told officers, "you can search what you can see that is all that is allowed unless you have reasonable suspicion. Can you articulate the reasons that you feel the need to search my car?" They will either let you go or try to detain you long enough for K9 to arrive. If the detainment takes more than a reasonable amount of time you have the basis for a complaint and possibly more. It is commonly held that you can not be made to wait for K9 to arrive if it takes longer than the duration of the stop would normally take.

    In other words just say no. If they are surfing they will leave. If they have reason they will articulate the reason and either start searching or have you wait for K9 to arrive. (K9s can sniff the exterior without a warrant.)

    What the OP sees as a good encounter I see as a pointless intrusion.
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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    I agree with you 100%. And I think in this case, no way were the OP's rights being violated. LEO's made a simple request, OP consented, case closed. No violation of rights.

    But on a similar note... It seems that any place a LEO makes a traffic stop just happens to all of a sudden be "a known drug area!"

    I would like to see that challenged someday in court.

    Because it would seem to me, the rational often used by LEO's seems to be any place in public is "a known drug area." I've seen LEO's really push the area farther and farther away from actual known drug areas where all of a sudden, any stops 5 blocks away from a known drug house is now considered to be "the known drug area."

    You can't tell me there aren't LEO's who try to push that as far as they can get away with.
    I with you on this Bark'n. A few years ago I went back to my home town and rove by my old middle school. Local city PD followed me away a few blocks then pulled me over. He asked to search my car because I was driving through a high crime/drug area. Regrettablly I consented. He didn't find anything as there was nothing to find but I wouldn't consent again.

    I think they should have to put up signs stating that driving slow by area etc is cause to jack with you.
    rolyat63
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  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by rolyat63 View Post
    I with you on this Bark'n. A few years ago I went back to my home town and rove by my old middle school. Local city PD followed me away a few blocks then pulled me over. He asked to search my car because I was driving through a high crime/drug area. Regrettablly I consented. He didn't find anything as there was nothing to find but I wouldn't consent again.

    I think they should have to put up signs stating that driving slow by area etc is cause to jack with you.
    Sign or no sign. If there's no probable cause, then the cops do not have the right to harass you.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bombsaway View Post
    So, there is only one viewpoint, and that's yours? Wow.

    In my experience, when someone says, "there's no debate", there most certainly is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bombsaway View Post
    Sign or no sign. If there's no probable cause, then the cops do not have the right to harass you.
    There is the prime example why there is no debate. /\ /\ It is evident that most of the population has no clue what they are talking about, which is sad really... and the very reason we are in the position we are in as a society on a whole. There is a sense of false knowledge, which is far more dangerous than plain old ignorance.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    There is the prime example why there is no debate. /\ /\ It is evident that most of the population has no clue what they are talking about, which is sad really... and the very reason we are in the position we are in as a society on a whole. There is a sense of false knowledge, which is far more dangerous than plain old ignorance.
    In other words, if someone doesn't agree with you, then they must be wrong, and "don't have a clue what they're talking about".

    The reason we are in the position we're in as a society is because people have their heads in the sand (and that's saying it nicely).
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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    There is the prime example why there is no debate. /\ /\ It is evident that most of the population has no clue what they are talking about, which is sad really... and the very reason we are in the position we are in as a society on a whole. There is a sense of false knowledge, which is far more dangerous than plain old ignorance.
    sorry to say this but you exhibit the typical cop mentality, the us versus everybody else out there, here's a clue most of the people you encounter on a daily basis may be aholes but the majority of people out there are decent hard working folks and many of us have a decent handle on what is right and wrong and in the OP's scenario there is no cause for the encounter to of even taken place. they cops only saw a guy in his car, they saw nothing to warrant the stop, there were no people interacting with the OP, there was no signs of drug use or drug dealing, there was just a guy in his car. Maybe if the cops observed suspicious activity around the car there could be a justification for the cops to do what they did, but to just arbitrarily roll up on the guy, demand his paperwork and then conduct a search is far beyond RAS.
    You may not realize it because sometime you can't see the forest because of the trees but your us versus them mentality is showing and it is not a good thing.
    Last edited by SIXTO; August 27th, 2011 at 02:59 PM. Reason: removed language infraction
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  15. #90
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    Many of "BIG" city Cops have told many of people- DO NOT CONSENT - ; )
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