Tax payers paid for "Fast and Furious"

This is a discussion on Tax payers paid for "Fast and Furious" within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; U.S. Government Used Taxpayer Funds To Buy, Sell Weapons During 'Fast And Furious,' Documents Show | Fox News...

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Thread: Tax payers paid for "Fast and Furious"

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    I had assumed that all along. Didn't think Holder and the rest would use their own money.
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    I had assumed that all along. Didn't think Holder and his gang would use their own money.

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    Look, its not unusual at all for LE activities to involve bait. It happens all the time with undercover drug deals and
    prostitution investigations. These guns were bait. It was a stupid way to do things. Beyond stupid. But not really all that unusual.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Look, its not unusual at all for LE activities to involve bait. It happens all the time with undercover drug deals and
    prostitution investigations. These guns were bait. It was a stupid way to do things. Beyond stupid. But not really all that unusual.
    Hop - I don't think the guns were bait. You put bait on a hook so you can catch something. There was no hook here. I don't know if you agree with this, but I subscribe to the theory that O & Co. were trying to pad the numbers of US guns in Mexico so they could enact more gun control laws and further restrict the 2A.

    I agree with you that F&F was neither smart nor unusual.
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    It's the ATF, FBI, CIA and a few other acronyms all brought in at varying degrees where did you think the money came from? This is why there were congression hearings; and why we're supposed to have those elected to represent us be in a position to make some changes so that our money doesn't get sent off to the other side without recourse and consequence (or promotion based on the current state of affairs) and more important, it's why there is so much outrage about the program in the first place (amongst reasons of using it to setup grounds for backdoor gun control)

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    There are so many three letter agencies in this country that need to be mothballed.....

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    No way, no how.
    They didn't ask ME if they could do it, so it must have been "FREE", right???


    We need to go back to the drawing board, and elect politicians who are at least half as smart as our founding fathers, because Disneyland on the Potomac is full of nit-wits, who catch on like a wet match, and think a Mexican border pays rent.

    They are puppets for the World Domination, megalomaniacs who wish to rule the world.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    No way, no how.
    They didn't ask ME if they could do it, so it must have been "FREE", right???


    We need to go back to the drawing board, and elect politicians who are at least half as smart as our founding fathers, because Disneyland on the Potomac is full of nit-wits, who catch on like a wet match, and think a Mexican border pays rent.

    They are puppets for the World Domination, megalomaniacs who wish to rule the world.
    Mess ups (putting it politely) like this one have nothing to do with politicians. They happen because most of our governmental agencies are huge and unmanageable-- no different than any other large organization. Bad mistakes happens in major Universities, in major companies, the largest banks (employee gambles away 2-3 BILLION dollars), and among larger non-profits such as The Red Cross not picking on them; it happens in large police departments too.

    An efficient organization has only three management layers. Get more than 3 layers and you lose your ability to manage effectively.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    Hop - I don't think the guns were bait. You put bait on a hook so you can catch something. There was no hook here. I don't know if you agree with this, but I subscribe to the theory that O & Co. were trying to pad the numbers of US guns in Mexico so they could enact more gun control laws and further restrict the 2A.

    I agree with you that F&F was neither smart nor unusual.
    K, you know I don't agree with you on that, but thanks for tossing it in to divert discussion from the major league "x" up.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    K, you know I don't agree with you on that, but thanks for tossing it in to divert discussion from the major league "x" up.
    That is exactly what they were doing....

    Always Think Forfeiture.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    Hop - I don't think the guns were bait. You put bait on a hook so you can catch something. There was no hook here. I don't know if you agree with this, but I subscribe to the theory that O & Co. were trying to pad the numbers of US guns in Mexico so they could enact more gun control laws and further restrict the 2A.

    I agree with you that F&F was neither smart nor unusual.
    Nailed it!

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    There's nothing specific in this article about tax payer money, but from government reports, most likely TARP money funded F&F.

    Anything that the government does is a result of taxpayer money as government and its alphabet agencies couldn't begin without it.

    The question is how high did the knowledge of this fiasco go in the Obama administration? Rep. Issa says Holder is lying and knew about F&F before the time that Holder claims in testimony. Rep. Issa has emails implicating highest levels of DOJ.

    There is stonewalling while thousands of F&F weapons are bound to claim innocent lives for years.

    That's not any kind of sting. Listen to the reports: agents had orders to let guns walk out of range of surveillance. The volume of guns rises to criminal intent to flood cartels with guns that can be found at raids and other crime scenes with direct ties to the U.S. - just as the Obama administration is claiming falsely, "90% of weapons reported seized in Mexico have origin in the U.S.". People die to enrich BATFE and to expand its control over guns in the U.S. - where it has sanction to operate. The facts speak for themselves.
    Last edited by Pistology; September 27th, 2011 at 03:03 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Mess ups (putting it politely) like this one have nothing to do with politicians. They happen because most of our governmental agencies are huge and unmanageable-- no different than any other large organization. Bad mistakes happens in major Universities, in major companies, the largest banks (employee gambles away 2-3 BILLION dollars), and among larger non-profits such as The Red Cross not picking on them; it happens in large police departments too.

    An efficient organization has only three management layers. Get more than 3 layers and you lose your ability to manage effectively.
    Hop - You are kidding - right? The federal agencies report directly to the Prez through the cabinet. They are overseen by Congress. The politicians are the bosses of the agencies. When the agencies go awry and politicians do not address the issue aggressively, they are at fault in the same way that the executive management and board of a corporation are at fault when an underling does something stupid and it does not get stopped in its tracks.

    There are these things called internal controls that are supposed to keep big errors from happening. In the corporate world, a pesky (and hugely expensive ) little law called the Sarbanes-Oxley act (SOX) (promulgated by the politicians in DC) requires companies to have good internal controls. There are criminal penalties if they don't. While SOX does not apply to the politicians, the voters do. Failure to hold them accountable in the same way that they hold executive management and boards accountable is abrogating our duties as citizens and voters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doodle View Post
    Nailed it!
    I agree with this 100%. Problem is that not only were the guns paid for with our tax dollars, they cost us AMERICAN lives. The United States government is guilty of killing its own citizens, with guns that they purchased. If people aren't smart enough to realize that the government needs to be changed, then they deserve the government they have.

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