More Little Old Lady Security at Airports
This is a discussion on More Little Old Lady Security at Airports within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by fed_wif_a_sig
I love the statements. Brothers please be a little more specific as you may not know that the air marshals were ...
August 14th, 2006 10:46 PM
Not to mention the hundreds and hundreds of other Agents and Officers who are part of the Department of Homeland Security. They are simply hardworking cops trying very hard to protect their country and making a lot of sacrifices to do it. While you may not agree with the decisions made by administrators at DHS and TSA (a trait you would find you have in common with many of the cops who work for the two agencies), when you declare that Homeland Security and TSA are a "joke", you demean a whole lot of dedicated men and women who carry badges and guns and whose only intent is to preserve the safety and integrity of this nation. Patriots demeaning patriots is, in my opinion, never a good thing. The dedicated folks in the Coast Guard are also part of that "joke", and I have never met or worked with a greater group of folks willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for other's safety. Even the airport screeners, who are often not always the brightest bulbs in the chandelier, are, for the most part, trying to do a difficult job under difficult circumstances that include a whole lot of unhappy people. While what they do may not always be pleasant, it is crucial (if not always efficient).
Originally Posted by fed_wif_a_sig
PS - For those who say "Leave security to the airlines". Please, please, please do a little research. The airlines could care less about security. In their eyes, the less security the better. Anything...ANYTHING...that might cause delays is not worth affecting their bottom lines.
Last edited by TheGreatGonzo; August 14th, 2006 at 10:59 PM.
"Skin that smokewagon!".
August 15th, 2006 12:22 AM
A huge +1 to Gonzo!
Having worked in the aviation security business for el Tio Sam before becoming an 1811, you DO NOT want the air carriers to resume the responsibility for security again....it was the lowest common denominator for the air carriers pre-TSA (remember Argenbright, Summit Security, and the other contract screening companies?...I sure do!) since security is not a money making venture from the air carrier's line of thinking....getting more passengers on aircraft is.
TSA is trying....like any gov't agency, they make mistakes (some big ones too)...but they are trying.
USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947
August 15th, 2006 12:23 AM
It was said in a news story I heard on the radio this morning on the way to work (Please allow me to paraphrase).
The government has two options: One would be to enstate inexpensive policies that require little training, the other to spend the money to get the equipment and training necessary to truely combat any terrorist plots well before their being conducted, and relieve some of if not all of the restrictions placed on the American citizen in regards to travel.
The government is going to go the route of the "lowest bidder" until we scream at them to do something about it. Then and only then will they do what they should be doing now.
The airlines, the governement, terrorists, and business know this for certain. We live in a huge country. Many of us in this country MUST travel for business (I, fortunately, do not). Thousands of people are on planes daily in this country alone. My father-in-law, who just retired, used to fly out every Monday and return home on Thursdays or Fridays. The added hassel at the airports was one reason that he was very happy to retire.
I haven't been on a plane in nearly 5 years, and have no intentions to get on one anytime soon, simply because I am not about to deal with the ID10T's that get hired by the TSA.
We allow them to ban lighters and matches because of one person. Now they ban liquids because of another bunch of people. Before long, we will be walking through screening in boxers and flip-flops holding our hands in the surrender position. All in the name of.......Homeland Security. It is time for us to stand up and hold the polititans and leaders of this country accountable. They are here to PROTECT our freedoms, not RESTRICT them. Sending e-mails and letters is ineffective. Phone calls are only a little more effective. Standing in one voice on the steps of Congress and the White House is the only way other than finding a leader who is in no ones pocket (not likely), that can afford to run.
Nothing like a late night rant to get one off to bed...huh?
August 15th, 2006 01:25 PM
I lost all respect for TSA after 9/11.
The air traffic controllers at Cleveland Hopkins wanted the contract security -- who were all former LEOs and/or prior military -- to watch their backs, and to be armed when they did so.
TSA put their foot down: designated security would not, under any condition whatsoever, carry or have access to guns, no exceptions, period. Not even former LEOs and/or prior military who were guarding the air traffic controllers after 9/11.
August 16th, 2006 01:11 PM
this was discussed at length this am on MSNBC....
"Ray Nagin is a colossal disappointment" - NRA/ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox.
"...be water, my friend."
August 16th, 2006 04:42 PM
I am NOT saying leave security to the airlines (although I'm sure they don't want another 9/11 either, despite being evil capitalists), or that there aren't good people working for Homeland Security. What I am saying is that HS and TSA policies are doing almost nothing to secure this country.
After 9/11 they banned anything on an airplane that could be used to cut. Should have given a knife to anyone who wanted one and said "If someone tries to hijack the plane, cut them to pieces". To this day, you can carry a glass bottle on a plane, just not with liquid in it anymore. Wouldn't a bottle make a great club, or broken a great stabbing/cutting weapon? First class passengers get their drinks in glass - I guess someone paying for a first class ticket would never hijack a plane, huh?
You can still transport powders in carry-on luggage. Can you think of any explosive powders right off hand?
Airlines got fined for having too many persons of Middle Eastern descent in the secondary security screenings! My wife, who travels frequently for business, got picked almost every trip for the year after 9/11, so they could make their quota of non-Middle Easterners (she is blonde, blue eyed, Germanic midwesterner). When my then small son was travelling with her, they had to examine his stuffed animal and his carry on. I personally watched TSA pick out an American mother with two very small children and proceed to disassemble her stroller and car seats in the name of security (this was after said items had already been x-rayed). If you have limited resources, focus on the threats, not on obvious non-threats in the name of Political Correctness.
There are technologies that would make the hold of the airplane both radio signal free and resistant to explosions (these have existed since before 9/11, but the FAA won't force the airlines to use them). There are reliable technologies that have been used in the nuclear industry for decades that "sniff" people for explosive components, that are just now being used in airports.
The government itself has found the easiest way to get prohibited items on a plane is to give them to the contractors that service the aircraft to smuggle aboard. Yet no reports on how the government or airlines are tightening up on those contractors.
The government has made it almost impossible for the pilots who want to be armed in the cockpit to do so, despite laws that were passed for that expressed purpose. Sky marshalls exist, but only fly a small percentage of all flights, and almost all of those flights are in and out of DC or NYC (I guess no one would attack Chicago, Miami, Las Vegas or LA). Also, the restrictions on what Sky Marshalls can wear and act would allow even a casual observer to pick them out.
I'm sure there are good people working in HS and TSA, it's just for evil to triumph, all it takes is good people to do nothing. They have to stand up and say when something works and more importantly, when it does not.
August 16th, 2006 06:16 PM
I realize you did not suggest leaving security to the airlines (by the way, I'm also an "evil capitalist"). I was responding to another poster on the forum who suggested exactly that...word for word. And I also agree that many of the policies in place by TSA and DHS are goofy and don't make much sense. The problem I have is when people make sweeping general statements like "Homeland Security and TSA are a joke", it includes and demeans a lot of hardworking cops, coasties, etc. They don't deserve that.
August 16th, 2006 07:37 PM
Umm... I work with Border Patrol, Customs and ICE all the time. Ask any of them and they'll tell you that Homeland Security and the TSA are a joke. It's not the people actually doing the security checks, etc. that are a joke, it's the higher-up people that are imposing the senseless rules in the first place that make it a joke. "Consolidating" departments wasn't the purpose of DHS, the purpose was to get everyone to talk to each other. Now all they have is a bloated department that doesn't know which hand is which, who's in charge of what and then they place people that know nothing of the actual job to run the thing. Big mess.
Originally Posted by TheGreatGonzo
IMHO I think the biggest mistake was Bush acknowledging terrorism in the first place by saying Suddam Hussein was a terrorist. The USA has always had the policy to not recognize terrorists because it gives them purpose and confirms that their message is getting across. Our policy has always been that it is a crime, not a political statement. When he created this whole compaign he created the histeria which eventually led to a group of terrorists who had a statement they wanted to make... We had 9/11. I guess they got their message across because 90% of our news wires are now filled with "terror".
August 16th, 2006 07:42 PM
Originally Posted by soundwave
That was what I was trying to say. You did it much more concisely. Thanks.
August 16th, 2006 08:47 PM
No problem. When you work in LE, you quickly learn that's usually the truth, too. ;O)
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