Occupy Wallstreet...Could this be a threat?

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  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Every civilization reaches points at which it must change in order to go forward. The first question I have is, is the USA at one of these points? As Hopyard says, plenty of people are rightfully angry. This is about a lot more than "a bunch of lowlifes who want money for nothing" (conservative media that is doing a good job of fanning these flames too) . It is about a government and a political system that no longer works for the people. The second question I have is, can there be any sort of real change without this turning violent? By sending in the LE, are they running the risk of making martyrs?

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  3. #17
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    The only issue I have outside of the politics, is the old saying, Your right to swing your arms ends where my nose begins. A peaceful demonstration is one thing- but the minute they stopped others from doing whatever it is they need to do is when a line is crossed.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    Every civilization reaches points at which it must change in order to go forward. The first question I have is, is the USA at one of these points? As Hopyard says, plenty of people are rightfully angry. This is about a lot more than "a bunch of lowlifes who want money for nothing" (conservative media that is doing a good job of fanning these flames too) . It is about a government and a political system that no longer works for the people. The second question I have is, can there be any sort of real change without this turning violent? By sending in the LE, are they running the risk of making martyrs?
    Yes, as already happened with the soldier who suffered a fractured skull.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    The only issue I have outside of the politics, is the old saying, Your right to swing your arms ends where my nose begins. A peaceful demonstration is one thing- but the minute they stopped others from doing whatever it is they need to do is when a line is crossed.
    I agree 100%. No matter how sincere the organizers may be, there are always going to be those who see it as an opportunity to break the law. At the first sign of the demonstration becoming other than peaceful it needs to be squashed quickly. Of course that will not happen because some bleeding heart will see it as suppressing someones freedom of speech.
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  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    The only issue I have outside of the politics, is the old saying, Your right to swing your arms ends where my nose begins. A peaceful demonstration is one thing- but the minute they stopped others from doing whatever it is they need to do is when a line is crossed.
    My concern is that the problems are beyond what can be solved with a peaceful demonstration. If the opposition can't be reasoned with, what choice is there? Peaceful protests certainly didn't work for this country's founding fathers, who even said that future revolutions are a given as well as necessary. Peaceful demonstration didn't hold the nation together in the mid 1800's. Interestingly, Alexander Tyler put it well in 1887:
    A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.
    Strangely enough, part of the problem today is that this is what both sides accuse the other of doing.

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    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    I agree 100%. No matter how sincere the organizers may be, there are always going to be those who see it as an opportunity to break the law. At the first sign of the demonstration becoming other than peaceful it needs to be squashed quickly. Of course that will not happen because some bleeding heart will see it as suppressing someones freedom of speech.
    Be careful what you wish for. Under the right circumstances, the squash-ers may become the squash-ed As I said, above, I am not certain that the problems that exist can be solved peaceably. In any case, if the problems aren't addressed, the pressure will only build and when things do explode, they will be worse.

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    My concern is that the problems are beyond what can be solved with a peaceful demonstration. If the opposition can't be reasoned with, what choice is there? Peaceful protests certainly didn't work for this country's founding fathers, who even said that future revolutions are a given as well as necessary. Peaceful demonstration didn't hold the nation together in the mid 1800's. Interestingly, Alexander Tyler put it well in 1887:
    Strangely enough, part of the problem today is that this is what both sides accuse the other of doing.
    Perhaps it cannot be solved peacefully. But, the message and what they are asking for reminds me of several history lessons throughout time. What scares me is all the lemmings that are blindly following; not the protests, demonstrations and riots. The same thing happened in 1917 Russia, 1953 Cuba and a number of dates in China.
    I blame a lot of this on the dumbing down of America, particularly removing such books like "Animal Farm" from required reading lists.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Quote Originally Posted by DontTreadOnI View Post
    I disagree with pretty much everything they stand for, but you bet your a** I support their right to stand for it.
    This is just the type of thinking that has made the USA great and will continue to keep us great.
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    political pressure, most OWS have nothing to lose, but this is softball, note they did not shut down a Interstate, "general strike" is being talked about, and being covered...Citizens do this much better in Europe, where all this nasty public protest and "political pressure" is applied in the summer time..."Hows that
    Hope and Change workin for ya?... Debt Slave's Revolt !! (finally) film at 11.....$.02

  11. #25
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    What scares me is all the lemmings that are blindly following; not the protests, demonstrations and riots. The same thing happened in 1917 Russia, 1953 Cuba and a number of dates in China.
    That does seem to be the way we are heading doesn't it. I attribute that, at least partially, to the concept that the pendulum swings. The USA may be showing how capitalism dies of corruption, with the natural tendency to swing the other direction.
    I blame a lot of this on the dumbing down of America, particularly removing such books like "Animal Farm" from required reading lists.
    I certainly agree with you on the dumbing down of America, which I think is a combination of both a natural side effect of past affluence and by design. In terms of Animal Farm, though, it seems to me that we have a society where we don't hide the fact that some animals are more equal and the pigs are proclaiming themselves as being more equal. As long as the other animals had their fill of "booze and pornography", as Orwell like to put it, they were content. Now, many of them can't afford it any longer. There also seem to be other interesting parallels to Orwell. Namely, for the youngest generation at least, we have always been at war and we certainly do have "new speak" that is really "old speak" with subtractions (thinking of internet / texting slang).

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    I fully support the right to protest but does anyone else feel it's a little wierd that this whole thing was conceived by an anarchist magazine in Canada? Not to be all gloom and doom but this seems a little too contrived. Right now there are people camped out in front of banks, federal buildings and financial institutions with no real purpose. We also have an administration that fully embraces the idea of radical change to the foundations to our contry.

    A large group of people for whatever reason (right or wrong) believe that their current hardships are due either banks or government policy supporting the financial system, and those same people are frustrated with their current situation. There is a continusly growing group with no clearly stated purpose that on some level almost everyone in the country can support. Indvidually these people would just talk about their frustrations. Here is a place they can go and "be heard". There have been numerous examples already of these groups suddenly getting out of hand. Did one person receive a txt "GO" or did the groups tension reach the breaking point.

    My original question and perhaps wasnt proposed well enough was more to the point of with todays easy networking and orginazational capabilites via twitter, facebook etc, what are the possibilites of this thing getting bigger and more out of control quicker then the ability to stop it. Just look at the countries in the past year that have been through rebellions and uprissing based on twitter and txt msgs.

    I think 1 violent act could lead to the message being sent out by whoever is behind the scenes running the facebook and twitter. A few in the respective crowds do something (I don't know what, it's not my plan) and then mob mentality insues simultaniously in a whole bunch of places.

    This sounds like how the final scene of fight club could be brought to actually happen.

  13. #27
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    Very interesting observations noway2, particularly about Animal Farm. But I don't think the occupy protester is that deep.

    The pendulum does swing, the problem is, people tend to get behind what appears to be the easy way out without much understanding of what lies beyond the typical swing to the left. I'm not convinced that the typical American youth has any concept of just what they are asking for with these occupy protests. I also know that the "man behind the curtain" pushing these lemmings over the cliff is doing exactly what they are protesting against. The problem is, they are to ignorant to realize they are still nothing more than pawns in the grand scheme of things. They will always be lemmings, pawns, plebs... whatever you want to call them until they make their own way in the world and create their own wealth- be it monetary or otherwise.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    ,You are exactly right, all it would take is that,a lot of people want to see the U.S. brought down,what they don't realize is if we go down,the rest of the world follows,I don't think the OWS wants this ,has anyone heard their list of demands,they really wantis free money and everyone to stop using toilet paper,but all it will take is that one text,tweet,call.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doodle View Post
    I fully support the right to protest but does anyone else feel it's a little wierd that this whole thing was conceived by an anarchist magazine in Canada? Not to be all gloom and doom but this seems a little too contrived. Right now there are people camped out in front of banks, federal buildings and financial institutions with no real purpose. We also have an administration that fully embraces the idea of radical change to the foundations to our contry.

    A large group of people for whatever reason (right or wrong) believe that their current hardships are due either banks or government policy supporting the financial system, and those same people are frustrated with their current situation. There is a continusly growing group with no clearly stated purpose that on some level almost everyone in the country can support. Indvidually these people would just talk about their frustrations. Here is a place they can go and "be heard". There have been numerous examples already of these groups suddenly getting out of hand. Did one person receive a txt "GO" or did the groups tension reach the breaking point.

    My original question and perhaps wasnt proposed well enough was more to the point of with todays easy networking and orginazational capabilites via twitter, facebook etc, what are the possibilites of this thing getting bigger and more out of control quicker then the ability to stop it. Just look at the countries in the past year that have been through rebellions and uprissing based on twitter and txt msgs.

    I think 1 violent act could lead to the message being sent out by whoever is behind the scenes running the facebook and twitter. A few in the respective crowds do something (I don't know what, it's not my plan) and then mob mentality insues simultaniously in a whole bunch of places.

    This sounds like how the final scene of fight club could be brought to actually happen.

  15. #29
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    Michelle Malkin » More ugly Occupy Oakland pictures that won’t make MSM front pages


    You gotta ask yourself...

    Are these really the kinds of people whom you admire? Would you befriend them? Do you approve of their actions? Do you want them to be the ones who speak for you? Would you support them and give them aid in their protests? Would you hire them? Would you want them to be in positions of power, running American business. Would you want them running the country?

    The rabble that currently occupies positions of power in our federal government is the real reason for our nation's ills and I'm more vexed about it than these scumbuckets are. American voter ignorance is why we're in a mess. This rabble in these protests are only being used by the rabble in government.

    The protesters in the 1932 Bonus March had a more valid grievance then these lay-abouts do today yet were ultimately cleared out. When this current "occupy" nonsense gets out of hand it's time to "fix bayonets on the '03 Springfields" and run them outa town! They need to learn what happens when they exceed their "swing limit" as was mentioned in Sixto's post.
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  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    Michelle Malkin » More ugly Occupy Oakland pictures that won’t make MSM front pages


    You gotta ask yourself...

    Are these really the kinds of people whom you admire? Would you befriend them? Do you approve of their actions? Do you want them to be the ones who speak for you? Would you support them and give them aid in their protests? Would you hire them? Would you want them to be in positions of power, running American business. Would you want them running the country?

    The rabble that currently occupies positions of power in our federal government is the real reason for our nation's ills and I'm more vexed about it than these scumbuckets are. American voter ignorance is why we're in a mess. This rabble in these protests are only being used by the rabble in government.

    The protesters in the 1932 Bonus March had a more valid grievance then these lay-abouts do today yet were ultimately cleared out. When this current "occupy" nonsense gets out of hand it's time to "fix bayonets on the '03 Springfields" and run them outa town! They need to learn what happens when they exceed their "swing limit" as was mentioned in Sixto's post.
    Remember, within the big cities most people don't own guns (springfields with bayonets or otherwise)...when that city is set ablaze it's too late. Unfortunately that's where we work and where our commerce comes from. Besides even if you could get a big enough group together good luck asking them to open fire against fellow americans (some of which are moms with strollers, case in point the oakland childrens brigade.)

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