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Occupy Wallstreet...Could this be a threat?

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  1. #46
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    These guys are pure amateurs compared to the 60's.

    This isn't a protest, it's a few people throwing a party and getting paid while doing it.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
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  2. #47
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    I'm a retired banker. I want it explained how banks and bankers are so big, bad, and evil. Let's hear a detailed explanation, without links.
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    These guys are pure amateurs compared to the 60's.

    This isn't a protest, it's a few people throwing a party and getting paid while doing it.
    I don't know if anyone is getting paid or not, but you are certainly right that this is amateur hour compared to the 60s. 1962, 1963, 1967-1968 gave the country permanent PTSD. One day we were prepared to be blown to sub-atomic dust with Cuban based nuclear missiles and a few years later we were tearing ourselves apart over half a dozen different issues. The police in Oakland, whatever their faults and strengths, are amateurs too as compared to Chicago's finest during the 1968 convention. It takes two sides to tango.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    Be careful what you wish for. Under the right circumstances, the squash-ers may become the squash-ed As I said, above, I am not certain that the problems that exist can be solved peaceably. In any case, if the problems aren't addressed, the pressure will only build and when things do explode, they will be worse.
    I have no problem with the peaceful demonstrators. That is their legal right. What I have problems with are the rabble who use it as an excuse to destroy private property, loot, commit vandalism all in the name of a movement. As happened in Oakland. Once they start that, they are no longer demonstrators, they are criminals ands should be treated as such.
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  5. #50
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    Here's a few timely quotes to chew on while we await an explanation of why we should direct our ire at banks... or corporate America and capitalism itself for that matter. Consider these in light of what we're seeing and hearing about this "occupy" bunch.

    Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel

    "When liberty is mentioned, we must always be careful to observe whether it is not really the assertion of private interests which is thereby designated."

    Karl Marx

    "I am not a Marxist."

    "Democracy is the road to socialism."

    "The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism."

    "Let the ruling classes tremble at a communist revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win. Workingmen of all countries, unite!"

    "The hand-mill gives you society with the feudal lord; the steam-mill society with the industrial capitalist."

    "Capitalist production, therefore, develops technology, and the combining together of various processes into a social whole, only by sapping the original sources of all wealth - the soil and the laborer. "

    "In bourgeois society capital is independent and has individuality, while the living person is dependent and has no individuality."

    "The production of too many useful things results in too many useless people."

    "In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly -- only then then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!

    "The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property."

    "Capital is dead labor, which, vampire-like, lives only by sucking living labor, and lives the more, the more labor it sucks."

    "While the miser is merely a capitalist gone mad, the capitalist is a rational miser."

    "Capital is reckless of the health or length of life of the laborer, unless under compulsion from society."

    "The bureaucracy is a circle from which no one can escape. Its hierarchy is a hierarchy of knowledge."

    "The bureaucrat has the world as a mere object of his action."

    "Nothing can have value without being an object of utility."

    "Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand. "

    "Religion is the opium of the masses."

    "The first requisite for the happiness of the people is the abolition of religion."

    "In communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticize after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic."

    "When communist artisans associate with one another, theory, propaganda, etc., is their first end. But at the same time, as a result of this association, they acquire a new need — the need for society — and what appears as a means becomes an end."

    "History does nothing, it ‘possesses no immense wealth’, it ‘wages no battles’. It is man, real, living man who does all that, who possesses and fights; ‘history’ is not, as it were, a person apart, using man as a means to achieve its own aims; history is nothing but the activity of man pursuing his aims."

    "Communism is the riddle of history solved, and it knows itself to be this solution."

    Friedrich Engels

    "The slave frees himself when, of all the relations of private property, he abolishes only the relation of slavery and thereby becomes a proletarian; the proletarian can free himself only by abolishing private property in general."

    "...it is impossible to carry on communist propaganda on a large scale and at the same time engage in huckstering and industry."

    "Political economy came into being as a natural result of the expansion of trade, and with its appearance elementary, unscientific huckstering was replaced by a developed system of licensed fraud, an entire science of enrichment."

    "Naturally, the workers are perfectly free; the manufacturer does not force them to take his materials and his cards, but he says to them..'If you don't like to be frizzled in my frying- pan, you can take a walk into the fire"

    "State interference in social relations becomes, in one domain after another, superfluous and then dies of itself. The government of persons is replaced by the administration of things, and by the conduct of the processes of production. The state is not 'abolished'. It withers way."

    "All past history was the history of class struggles; that these warring classes of society are always the products of the modes of production and of exchange."

    "Not only can we manage very well without the interference of the capitalist class in the great industries of the country, but that their interference is becoming more and more a nuisance."

    "The proletariat uses the State not in the interests of freedom but in order to hold down its adversaries, and as soon as it becomes possible to speak of freedom the State as such ceases to exist."

    "Everything must justify its existence before the judgment seat of Reason, or give up existence."


    Vladimir Lenin

    "A lie told often enough becomes the truth."

    "Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted."

    "Crime is a product of social excess."

    "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."

    "The best way to destroy the capitalist system is to debauch the currency."

    "Capitalists are no more capable of self-sacrifice than a man is capable of lifting himself up by his own bootstraps."

    "It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed."

    "When there is state there can be no freedom, but when there is freedom there will be no state."

    "To rely upon conviction, devotion, and other excellent spiritual qualities; that is not to be taken seriously in politics."

    "The press should be not only a collective propagandist and a collective agitator, but also a collective organizer of the masses."

    "The capitalists strive to sow and foment hatred between workers of different faiths, different nations and different races. Those who do not work are kept in power by the power and strength of capital. Rich Jews, like rich Russians, and the rich in all countries, are in alliance to oppress, crush, rob and disunite the workers."

    "One man with a gun can control 100 without one."

    "Freedom is a bourgeois prejudice. We repudiate all morality which proceeds from supernatural ideas or ideas which are outside the class conception. In our opinion, morality is entirely subordinate to the interests of the class war. Everything is moral which is necessary for the annihilation of the old exploiting order and for uniting the proletariat. Our morality consists solely in close discipline and conscious warfare against the exploiters."

    "Democracy is indispensable to socialism."

    "The goal of socialism is communism."

    "There are no morals in politics; there is only expedience. A scoundrel may be of use to us just because he is a scoundrel."

    Joseph Stalin

    "Print is the sharpest and the strongest weapon of our party."

    "Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas."

    "The only real power comes out of a long rifle."

    "It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything."

    "When we hang the capitalists they will sell us the rope we use."

    Barack Obama

    "Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek."

    "I've been fighting with Acorn, alongside Acorn, on issues you care about, my entire career."

    "Now, anybody who thinks that we can move this economy forward with just a few folks at the top doing well, hoping that it's going to trickle down to working people who are running faster and faster just to keep up, you'll never see it."

    "We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK. That's not leadership. That's not going to happen."

    "It's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

    "This is the moment when we must build on the wealth that open markets have created, and share its benefits more equitably."

    "I think when you spread the wealth around it's good for everybody."

    "If we choose to keep those tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires, if we choose to keep a tax break for corporate jet owners, if we choose to keep tax breaks for oil and gas companies that are making hundreds of billions of dollars, then that means we've got to cut some kids off from getting a college scholarship."

    "It's time to fundamentally change the way that we do business in Washington. To help build a new foundation for the 21st century, we need to reform our government so that it is more efficient, more transparent, and more creative. That will demand new thinking and a new sense of responsibility for every dollar that is spent."

    "The thing about hip-hop today is it's smart, it's insightful. The way they can communicate a complex message in a very short space is remarkable."

    "We can't have special interests sitting shotgun. We gotta have middle class families up in front. We don't mind the Republicans joining us. They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back."

    "You will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime."

    "I can make a firm pledge, under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

    "I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."

    "We're not trying to push financial reform because we begrudge success that's fairly earned. I mean, I do think at a certain point you've made enough money. But, you know, part of the American way is, you know, you can just keep on making it if you're providing a good product or providing good service. We don’t want people to stop, ah, fulfilling the core responsibilities of the financial system to help grow our economy."

    "This is no way to run the greatest country on Earth."
    bolocanolo and Guest1 like this.
    Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society "Get heeled! No really"

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  6. #51
    Member Array Ducmonster's Avatar
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    I think a large majority of our country think that government and society are messed up. What is interesting is the diversity of opinion on what is wrong and what they
    want done. Some want a much smaller government that only does what is allowed by the constitution. Of coarse that does open up arguments as to what is allowed by the constitution but,
    most of these would say primarily the federal government is responsible for security of our country and assisting with commerce between the states. On the other end are the ones who think the government should be responsible for ensuring that everyone has equal opportunities and equal outcomes. And that government must regulate and control most things so that things are fair.

    Our capitalistic system has fostered an amazing amount of advances in our lives over the last 200 years. Think about it, how far did we come in the 2000 years before The United States was formed compared to the 200 years after. I think this was due to the freedoms our country allows and the moral ethic we started with that encouraged being responsible for ourselves.

    Unless we can find some leadership that will return us to our roots I don't think we can continue as the dominant culture we have been much longer.

    Wow, bmcgilvray while I was thinking about my little post you put up that. I'm feeling inadequate but thanks anyway.
    bmcgilvray likes this.

  7. #52
    Ex Member Array JBachman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    The resume implies that they would be looking for work. They don't want work, they want hand-outs.
    Bingo!

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  8. #53
    Ex Member Array JBachman's Avatar
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    While I agree there are a great many things that can be done to improve things, taking from those that have and giving to those that don't er "redistribute" does not go over well with me. I have never been offered nor would I ever accept a handout. I have worked hard for what I have. To have a bunch of liberal hippies gathering all over to try to take my wealth.... Ya right. Go kick rocks you low life @ssholes.

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  9. #54
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    "Wow, bmcgilvray while I was thinking about my little post you put up that. I'm feeling inadequate but thanks anyway."

    Hah! I'm neither that quick-thinking or quick-typing. I compiled that a while back and saved it for quick access. I simply "cut-'n-paste."
    Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society "Get heeled! No really"

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  10. #55
    Ex Member Array JBachman's Avatar
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    And I believe we are entitled to the PURSUIT of life, liberty and happiness, not a guarantee. Get a job.

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  11. #56
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    Shouldn't most of these protestors be in school, at work, or out looking for work?
    Ha ha. That's pretty good.

    Let's see, the average student today racks up around $25,000 in loans, on the low end. Some wind up in 6-figure debt. And that's debt you can't get out of through bankruptcy. Yet, a huge percentage of today's graduating class is entering an economy that isn't hiring. Basically, they're screwed for years, decades.

    And because a lot of these kids can't find decent work and have $400 monthly payments on their loans, getting healthcare is difficult (if possible), a car loan is out of the question, and saving up for a house is beyond suggestion. They're stuck with degrees that don't mean anything.

    Also, by the time the economy does pick back up, they're going to be in competition with a fresh bunch of grads with fresh skills. Double screwed.

    "At work"? Most of the protesters I've read about are unemployed, and let's see a show of hands out there among the members of this concealed carry community: Anybody here had to look for work lately? How'd that go for you?

    Anybody here struggling with health insurance? Do you have a pension? Do you have any employment benefits at all?

    If you're really, really lucky, you work for a municipal, state, or federal agency and have a halfway decent employment situation with some measure of job security. If not, you're probably worried about the next axe to fall. It's very hard for most middle and lower-class Americans to protest because most are too worried about hanging on to their increasingly difficult jobs.

    Thank God we have the 99-percenters out there doing what a lot of us would like to do but can't.

    Don't let the media lie to you and believe that these are just a bunch of bad, dirty hippies who want free money. It isn't about that. It's about the CEO you read about who trashed his company and got fired, leaving with a multi-million-dollar bonus. It's about the super-wealthy who are fighting tooth and nail to avoid so much as a single penny more in taxes that are right now the lowest in living memory.

    What do Perry, Cain, Romney, and the rest hold up as the First Order of Business if they get elected? Elimination of capital gains taxes. This is what the 99 percenters are protesting: A economic system that's rigged against everyone but those at the pinnacle.

    Hey - I can just picture a lot of you sitting in a diner, having your coffee and a slice of pie, grumbling and kvetching with your pals about how messed up everything is. Stuff like our jobs being shipped to China and India, about how every time you get a raise, your health insurance goes up even more. Your city is cutting back services, firing teachers and firefighters and police. Grumble grumble grumble. Can't do nuthin' about it. Right?

    So this Occupy movement is the first step in people finally saying, "enough!" It's time to stop moaning and whining about how screwed up everything is and time to start pushing back.

    Let me leave you with this thought: Recently, all the big banks have backed away from charging us $5 a month on our debit cards. They backed down. They blinked. And yes it felt good to win a round against them. They are starting to notice that the citizens of this country are tired of seeing their standard of living lowered while the 1 percent continue to make out like bandits.
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  12. #57
    Ex Member Array JBachman's Avatar
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    And there you go. Your opening paragraph says it all. People applying for credit, loans and mortgages they have no hope of ever being able to repay. Specifically student loans, what do you really expect to do with a liberal arts degree or a basket weaving degree?! Um, really?

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  13. #58
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    As Orwell said, "ignorance is bliss". Well he sure had many members of this forum nailed. I forget who said it, but there is a famous quote that says "you can either have democracy or concentrated wealth in the hands of a few". The fact is that history is full of civilizations that wound up with concentrated wealth in the hands of a few. They all soon fell. Unless something changes, this country will be no different. Sitting in front of your computer, behind a screen name it is easy to throw insults and call the protesters lazy, and jobless, and every other small word you can think of. For that matter it is easy to regurgitate the drivel that Rupert Murdoch and friends programmed you to say. It certainly takes less effort than to get out there and stand up for what you believe is right or to have an independent thought, let alone take action on it. The country is in the position it is in largely because of corruption, greed, and graft. The people have been fleeced and the crooks are laughing all the way to the bank. Now it is time for them to pay, and by God they will be made to pay, dearly.

    The problem is that the govt has been bought. One needs to look no further than all the special interest lobbying and de-regulation that has occurred to see that. The govt has become subservient to the corporations. The corporations are pathological entities whose sole purpose is generation of profit and the USA and its citizens s nothing but a tool to them. Even the courts have become corrupt. Look no further than the piece of trash legislation from the bench called Citizen's United that does nothing but help to further insure that the establishment stays established. Its wrong and it needs to stop. What is clear is that the power in the USA is out of balance and it is getting worse. Legislation to ban unions? Sure, lets legislate the right to abuse the workers. Why do you think unions arose? This system is broke and its engine is gasping. I doubt it is going to go much further.

    How many of your have lost great deals of money in your retirement funds, in your homes? How many have lost their jobs or had to take ones that earn far less? Were not talking about the uneducated here. Were talking people with advanced degrees. How many can't even move or relocate because of this market even if they want to? Get a job? Great idea. Where? What jobs? Oh sure, minimum wage - and poverty. Why do you think the govt is so opposed to stopping illegal immigration? Cheap labor! Who benefits from this? You guessed it. The same ones that own the Govt! Go to school? Sure, go into indentured servitude is more like it.

    The fact is we need clean elections. We won't get clean elections until we get the special interest money out of them. We need a govt for and by the people. Not for the corporations. Not for the wealthy. One thing is clear, it is high time for this country to get off the X. To stay there will mean certain death.
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  14. #59
    Ex Member Array JBachman's Avatar
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    So because I amassed a great deal of wealth, for which I worked hard my entire life, I'm evil and greedy? Nothing was handed to me, I worked hard building a successful business and I will gladly keep every penny I earn. I'll say it again... Quit blaming everyone else for your personal failures and get a job.

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  15. #60
    Ex Member Array CUMMINS's Avatar
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    This whole game is like chess, Obama is trying to make these people riot, then he can implement marshal law. Become president forever, and take our guns away because he can... then its check mate

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