Occupy Wallstreet...Could this be a threat?

This is a discussion on Occupy Wallstreet...Could this be a threat? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Will the Occupy protest get ugly and violent and spill out into other areas of society? Perhaps. Like any other group of dissention, it always ...

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  1. #76
    VIP Member Array JoJoGunn's Avatar
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    Will the Occupy protest get ugly and violent and spill out into other areas of society? Perhaps.

    Like any other group of dissention, it always has the possibility of riot and destruction. All they need is an "event" to spark the revolution.

    It really isn't about the issues they are trying to put across, it is basically a mob that has not gone sour. Yet.

    That would also include the TEA movement as well. They too have the potential for violence.

    What we need to do is be prepared should any one of these "movements" turn ugly. I remember seeing the carnage after the Rodney King verdict and when the "protestors" took to the streets in anger, mayhem resulted. We need to allow protest but once it crosses that fine line into anarchy, then some drastic measures need to be taken to quell the violence.
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  3. #77
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    If you are referring to the businesses in my post I don't know specifically what businesses they are but I have a feeling he was talking about some of the larger employers in the Houston area, not mom and pop places. Your local convenience store or taco truck owner is probably not going to be able to come up with the kind of money they were talking about. They were talking in excess of a dollar a minute.
    If that is what they would be paying us, you can bet that they would be paying our employer about double that. Based on that I am assuming we are talking about companies that have large campuses around the city or high rise office buildings with their names on them.
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    Member Array Bigkahuna's Avatar
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    When the government spends millions of dollars to bail out corporations while hospitals and schools are closing, then I think we have a serious problem with our priorities. When politicians can raise $5000 a plate dinners for their election campaigns and we have people starving in this country, then I think we have a serious problem with our priorities. I have a good job and I support the occupy Wall street folks because they are trying to wake people up. I'm not a commie or a socialist. I just want America to to continue to be the shining beacon of hope that we have been in the past. The country where anyone can grow up to be the President. Like the saying says........."My country wrong or right. When it's right, keep it right. When it's wrong, make it right. Here endith the rant.
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  5. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    If those small business men were thinking, they'd be out supporting OWS. They have been victims of the man made recession, the impossibility of getting small business credit, loss of value of their Keogh Plans due to the excessive risk taking by the investment banks, and lots more. Most don't earn the mega-millions we watch going to the buddy of a buddy who is on a BOD.
    Oh we're thinking alright. I'm thinking that this mess was created by the masses of those who do not wish to work, voting in politicians who will give them free stuff at the expense of those of us who do work.

    My issue is with my government, not businesses that are more successful than my own.
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  6. #80
    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    The corporations are pathological entities whose sole purpose is generation of profit and the USA and its citizens s nothing but a tool to them.
    Did you think corporations existed to tend to the general welfare of the country?
    Corporations do exist for the sole purpose of making a profit so that stock holders (many who are regular working people who contribute through their 401 k plans), can build a retirement account or amass wealth. These "stock holders" have put their own hard earned dollars at risk in the hopes of growing that investment. The OWS folks have risked nothing and don't have any skin in the game, and no....the person who dropped out of high school or moved here from Mexico without any skills doesn't "deserve" a living wage because he has learned how to operate a lawn mower or floor waxer.
    If you want to share in the pie, get an education, learn what it takes to succeed, find your niche and take some risks....
    64zebra and bmcgilvray like this.
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  7. #81
    Ex Member Array JBachman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorblade View Post
    Did you think corporations existed to tend to the general welfare of the country?
    Corporations do exist for the sole purpose of making a profit so that stock holders (many who are regular working people who contribute through their 401 k plans), can build a retirement account or amass wealth. These "stock holders" have put their own hard earned dollars at risk in the hopes of growing that investment. The OWS folks have risked nothing and don't have any skin in the game, and no....the person who dropped out of high school or moved here from Mexico without any skills doesn't "deserve" a living wage because he has learned how to operate a lawn mower or floor waxer.
    If you want to share in the pie, get an education, learn what it takes to succeed, find your niche and take some risks....
    AMEN! Couldn't have said it better myself.

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  8. #82
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorblade View Post
    Did you think corporations existed to tend to the general welfare of the country?
    No, I don't believe that the corporations exist for welfare. I do, however, believe that their long term welfare depends upon the welfare of those who work for and support them in other ways (e.g. customers). I also don't believe that we can let them run rampant and unrestricted because they will rape and pillage in this dogged pursuit of profit. There are priorities in this world other than their ability to accumulate money. History has shown this. While corporations have allowed some of the greatest achievements in the world, they have also been responsible for some of the greatest atrocities. Like anything, they must be handled with moderation and controlled. Labor unions exist because of corporate abuses.

    Corporations do exist for the sole purpose of making a profit so that stock holders (many who are regular working people who contribute through their 401 k plans), can build a retirement account or amass wealth. These "stock holders" have put their own hard earned dollars at risk in the hopes of growing that investment. The OWS folks have risked nothing and don't have any skin in the game, and no....the person who dropped out of high school or moved here from Mexico without any skills doesn't "deserve" a living wage because he has learned how to operate a lawn mower or floor waxer.
    If you want to share in the pie, get an education, learn what it takes to succeed, find your niche and take some risks....
    And the wage that people earn should not be determined by a race to the bottom of the lowest common denominator. The "wealthy", pardon me while I spit on the floor, base the majority of their argument on the premise that everyone wants to be like them and that they are envied. This is not true for everybody and some of us have different motivations. If you don't understand or believe this, there is little that can be said that will convince you because your priorities are different.

    You are also making assumptions that are unfounded and untrue regarding the OWS protestors and their supporters. As I have said before, it easy to sit anonymously behind your PC and spit insults at them.
    Last edited by noway2; November 10th, 2011 at 12:59 PM. Reason: tyop

  9. #83
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    Here's some comments from the Brit's, but what I think of more interest here is the embedded video. I am not throwing gasoline or water on anyone's arguments, I am just making an observation on the original premise for this thread.

    Occupy Wall Street: The bloom is fading | The Economist

    It looks like a mob to me, and there are a lot of dangerous emotions running quite high. May we all consider how we might react to similar situations.

  10. #84
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    What some people don't seem to grasp is that these evil corporate policies are simply the will of the people. Each and every stockholder has the opportunity to nominate board members and vote on board members and provide input on policy questions. These coroporations are owned by members of this forum, their parents and siblings. They are owned by the union retirement funds. They are owned by the mutual funds.

    Corporate greed is what enabled grandma to grow her money over the last forty years so she does not have to eat alpo three nights a week.

    If you are a shareholder and dont like what is going on, go to the annual meeting or send in your proxy and vote to change things. If you are not a share holder, you have no stake in the company so why should the company care what you think?

    Their obligations are to their shareholders.
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  11. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorblade View Post
    Did you think corporations existed to tend to the general welfare of the country?
    Corporations do exist for the sole purpose of making a profit so that stock holders (many who are regular working people who contribute through their 401 k plans), can build a retirement account or amass wealth. These "stock holders" have put their own hard earned dollars at risk in the hopes of growing that investment. The OWS folks have risked nothing and don't have any skin in the game, and no....the person who dropped out of high school or moved here from Mexico without any skills doesn't "deserve" a living wage because he has learned how to operate a lawn mower or floor waxer.
    If you want to share in the pie, get an education, learn what it takes to succeed, find your niche and take some risks....
    Sounds good on paper but hasn't been working to well for too many people for a very long time.
    The truth, covered over by politicians and many corporate mouth pieces, is that we overproduce educated people, not under.

    The find your niche and take some risks advice is sound, but society could help the risk taking along with better safety nets for those who don't make it-- the whatever it is, 90% of small business which fail in the first year; the college grads who can't get work; the folks who get laid off.

    As for Noway2's comment that corporations are pathological entities, it all depends. Some clearly are predatory. Some, not at all. Unfortunately as with ordinary street crime, the criminals ruin it for the rest of us.
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  12. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    What some people don't seem to grasp is that these evil corporate policies are simply the will of the people. Each and every stockholder has the opportunity to nominate board members and vote on board members and provide input on policy questions. These coroporations are owned by members of this forum, their parents and siblings. They are owned by the union retirement funds. They are owned by the mutual funds.

    Corporate greed is what enabled grandma to grow her money over the last forty years so she does not have to eat alpo three nights a week.

    If you are a shareholder and dont like what is going on, go to the annual meeting or send in your proxy and vote to change things. If you are not a share holder, you have no stake in the company so why should the company care what you think?

    Their obligations are to their shareholders.
    In theory you are absolutely correct. In reality, not so much. I once served on the BOD of a small non-profit. Small as we were it was a chore to keep an eye on where the money was going and what was really being done. A guy croaked and left us $60,000. I never could quite figure out where that money went to and why. If you think the ordinary stockholder, or even the extraordinary very large stock holder, of a publicly traded company has a voice, you need a new concept of reality.

    Equally to the point, many state pension funds hold huge amounts of money (stock) in large corporations but are forbidden by law from exercising their vote. The states could control many companies directly if they let their pension managers vote their shares. That of course would introduce politics into the board room etc., so they sit silently while the investments get Enroned.
    gunsnroses likes this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  13. #87
    Member Array kwoodford's Avatar
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    A couple of points I think are interesting:

    These protesters are saying no more government bailouts...yet their "leader" is the one who signed that bailout law....passed by a Democrat controlled house and senate.

    Secondly protesting a bank and shutting it down for any length of time is much different that lets say shutting down a port or interuppting raillines...those to me are tantamount to a terrorist act. Hopefully the courts will see that and allow LE to do their job.

  14. #88
    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    No, I don't believe that the corporations exist for welfare. I do, however, believe that their long term welfare depends upon the welfare of those who work for and support them in other ways (e.g. customers). I also don't believe that we can let them run rampant and unrestricted because they will rape and pillage in this dogged pursuit of profit. There are priorities in this world other than their ability to accumulate money.
    Correct....and the term for those organizations is "non profits".

    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    History has shown this. While corporations have allowed some of the greatest achievements in the world, they have also been responsible for some of the greatest atrocities.
    Correct again.....this can also be said about Governments, Labor Unions, Religions and Firearms.

    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    Like anything, they must be handled with moderation and controlled. Labor unions exist because of corporate abuses.
    This was true 100 years ago.....Modern day unions can share in some of the blame for driving manufacturing out of the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    And the wage that people earn should not be determined by a race to the bottom of the lowest common denominator. The "wealthy", pardon me while I spit on the floor, base the majority of their argument on the premise that everyone wants to be like them and that they are envied.
    I'm not sure how this relates to anything but obviously you seem to have a deep seated problem with people who have been successful.

    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    This is not true for everybody and some of us have different motivations. If you don't understand or believe this, there is little that can be said that will convince you because your priorities are different.
    Yea....I guess I'm just too ignorant to "get it".

    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    You are also making assumptions that are unfounded and untrue regarding the OWS protestors and their supporters. As I have said before, it easy to sit anonymously behind your PC and spit insults at them.
    I've re-read my post a couple of times and didn't see any assumptions, nor did I spit insults at anyone.
    To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the crocodile, hoping he will eat you last - but eat you he will.
    Ronald Reagan

  15. #89
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    In theory you are absolutely correct. In reality, not so much. I once served on the BOD of a small non-profit. Small as we were it was a chore to keep an eye on where the money was going and what was really being done. A guy croaked and left us $60,000. I never could quite figure out where that money went to and why. If you think the ordinary stockholder, or even the extraordinary very large stock holder, of a publicly traded company has a voice, you need a new concept of reality.
    You are correct in that mom or pop who hold fifteen shares are not going to be able to control policy directly, however they most certainly have a voice if they choose to make the effort. As part owners of the company they have every legal right to attend the annual meeting and vote on the issues. Every company I have ever held stock in has mailed me notices and proxy forms regularly. In that paperwork was also a form to fill out if I wished to speak at the meetings. If mom or pop makes the effort to attend and speak to the other shareholders, and can persuade others to vote with them they definitely can effect policy.
    Equally to the point, many state pension funds hold huge amounts of money (stock) in large corporations but are forbidden by law from exercising their vote. The states could control many companies directly if they let their pension managers vote their shares. That of course would introduce politics into the board room etc., so they sit silently while the investments get Enroned.
    But they can vote with their pocket book so to speak. While there may be laws preventing them from voting there are no laws requiring them to hold that stock. If you recall many pension funds could not vote on corporate policies regarding doing business with the Apartheid government of South Africa so they divested. These funds can effectively vote their shares by holding them or dumping them.
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  16. #90
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotoblade
    I'm not sure how this relates to anything but obviously you seem to have a deep seated problem with people who have been successful.
    Quite the contrary. I have achieved plenty of it myself, through education and hard work. What I have a complete disdain for are plutocrats, which are nothing more than a modern form of monarchy. The last decade or so has been been characterized by an emboldening of the wannabe plutocrats. The Wall Street bailouts, which have let the good times roll for many of them while much of the rest of the country suffers was just a bold example. The system is unbalanced. What needs to be a win-win has become a win-lose.

    I've re-read my post a couple of times and didn't see any assumptions, nor did I spit insults at anyone.
    I was referring to your comment about the OWS people having no skin in the game. This is an assumption, one that I don't believe to be true, myself being an example. While you may not have been insulting, many in this forum have been. While I may not agree with some of the unlawful actions taken by some that claim to be OWS, I do believe that in order for their to be real change in this country that it there is going to be no way to avoid violence. The masses can protest till the cows come home and the plutocrats won't care. Start stinging them, however and you may make them stop to scratch.

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