The Capitol Gang that Couldn't Run Guns Straight

This is a discussion on The Capitol Gang that Couldn't Run Guns Straight within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; This is the latest installment of Gunrunnergate. Last year, brothers, Ranferi and Otilio Osorio, delivered 40 weapons - many with obliterated serial numbers - in ...

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Thread: The Capitol Gang that Couldn't Run Guns Straight

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    The Capitol Gang that Couldn't Run Guns Straight

    This is the latest installment of Gunrunnergate.

    Last year, brothers, Ranferi and Otilio Osorio, delivered 40 weapons - many with obliterated serial numbers - in duffel bags to an ATF informant for a probable Mexican cartel. The brothers delivered the weapons in Texas where they bought them illegally by lying about personal use. Agents stopped the weapons at the Mexican border.

    The Osorios were not arrested until February of this year - just after the murder of Immigration and Customs Enforcement officer, Jaime Zapata.

    Otilio Osoroio bought the murder weapon, a Romarm-Cugir Draco 7.62 pistol, in October 2010.
    The question is whether ATF was investigating the Osorios at the time the weapon was smuggled into Mexico.

    Republicans monitoring Obama's guns-to-gangs fiasco want to know why the Osorios weren't arrested in November of 2010 - when the ATF informant got the illegal weapons from the brothers - instead of the date of their actual arrest in February 2011. Obama's DOJ won't comment to Republican congressional investigators. The DOJ is stonewalling their response to the investigators on the basis of inability to comment on an ongoing investigation.

    Gunrunnergate may not sit well with Obama's traditional support base. It's gonna be a close election. And the incumbent is digging lots of dirt on himself.
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    Distinguished Member Array jumpwing's Avatar
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    No matter how this next Soap Opera plays out, we'll still end up with either a Republicrat or a Demican in the White House.
    "The flock sleep peaceably in their pasture at night because Sheepdogs stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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    2A and gun owners are better off without the stonewalling on Capitol Hill of the investigation of the free-flow of guns from the U.S. to Mexico while Obama or his DOJ is facilitating the free flow and simultaneously calling for tougher gun control while citing so many criminal weapons in Mexico are from the U.S.
    This isn't a party war. This is no man above the law. It just seems that someone high in the current administration is playing both sides of the fight against running guns.
    I just want the truth. Don't you?
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pistology View Post
    2A and gun owners are better off without the stonewalling on Capitol Hill of the investigation of the free-flow of guns from the U.S. to Mexico while Obama or his DOJ is facilitating the free flow and simultaneously calling for tougher gun control while citing so many criminal weapons in Mexico are from the U.S.
    This isn't a party war. This is no man above the law.
    I agree wholeheartedly, but, good luck with that in today's political climate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pistology View Post
    It just seems that someone high in the current administration is playing both sides of the fight against running guns.
    I just want the truth. Don't you?
    Most likely more than 1 "someone" and, re: the bold again, good luck with that.
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    Sen. Grassley and Rep. Issa are investigating. And their investigation is made of sterner stuff than luck. Congessional investigators are not strangers to stone walls nor to defeating them. I expect more truth to come in fits and starts during the election season if not beyond.
    I'm a believer in the "Fourth Estate" and want to keep interested citizens up to date.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    The Fourth Estate? The same folks who could find no wrong in Obama back in 2008? The same folks who can't tell an AK from a slingshot? The same folks who think celebrity divorce news ranks up there with Legislative news?

    No thanks.
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    Maybe poor word choice. I was thinking of Woodward / Bernstein and forums like this one. And all that evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
    So we watch, report, and don't grow too cynical in the process. It's always darkest before the dawn.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    Today, the WSJ reports that Attorney General Eric Holder has questions to answer at a Senate hearing on Tuesday. He is expected to condemn the practice of letting suspects buy guns and to admit to misleading statements in denying that agents allowed suspects to make illegal purchases and to say that the ATF always tried to interdict weapons. But his admission of misleading statements comes with blaming U.S. Attorney, Dennis Burke, and ATF leaders, for misleading information on which Holder was basing the misleading statements and for lapses of management in Burke's office that led to the Fast and Furious mistakes. Burke takes issue saying that he has been open in his cooperation with the investigation and had no knowledge of the specific tactics of Fast and Furious.

    An ATF official says, "There have been cases in the past where we have walked guns."

    Bush's AG ran Operation Wide Receiver in '06 / '07 that let suspects buy firearms and that failed when agents lost track of the smugglers.

    Lanny Breuer is the DOJ's current criminal division chief who renewed Wide Receiver suspect prosecutions.

    The purpose of the hearing on Tuesday may be to find out who knew what when - to identify in whom lies the responsibility of lost, walking guns making our country culpable in breaking international arms trade law.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    IIRC the big problem with "Wide Receiver" was the LEO's in Mexico that seemingly would go blind when the suspect vehicles crossed the border.
    Our guys would tell them "Suspects are driving a white xxxx year yyyy make zzzz model with this license plate. It will be crossing the border at this location in about five minutes."
    Their response would be something along the lines of there being too much traffic so they were unable to recognize the vehicle when it crossed.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

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    Rep. Issa accuses the DOJ of stonewalling, deception, obstruction, and defiance of a congressional subpoena.

    Sen. Grassley (ranking member, Committee on the Judiciary), Rep. Issa (House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman), and other conservatives calling for the resignation of AG Holder are breaking his department's stone wall of "Fast and Furious". AG Holder and President Obama are adopting a more vocal tack. But, with some lawmakers asking President Obama to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate "F&F", it isn't much better for those responsible.

    The Attorney General misled the congressional investigation and now clarifies those statements with others more in line with what we know today - typical politician behind the eight-ball and behind the flow of information - instead of calling the shots and notifying the public as good citizens deserve of their top law enforcement officer.

    Still, except when he protests his DOJ's and ATF's being a target of investigation, AG Holder defers to the continuing Inspector General's investigation. Holder says that DOJ officials thought that they were telling the truth - that the congressional investigators just weren't asking the ones that had any knowledge of DOJ's policy of straw purchases and letting guns walk. Yet the AG isn't calling any names to task.

    The congressional investigation, on the other hand, finds that senior Justice Department officials knew that at the time that Department of Justice Assistant Attorney General for Legislative Affairs Ronald Weich delivered the misleading statement to congress in February that it was untrue. Now Rep. Issa is holding him accountable by demanding "a complete list of individuals who helped prepare the February 4, 2011, letter to Senator Grassley as well as all documents relating to the preparation of that letter referring or relating to the development of DOJ's response to Senator Grassley's January 27, 2011 request for information" by this Wednesday, November 16.

    Holder is on slate for the House Judiciary Committee next month.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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