Why does Tampa Bay need an APC/tank?

This is a discussion on Why does Tampa Bay need an APC/tank? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I have seen polic officers with no vegetation in sight in the middle of the city wearing green digital cammies. they rolled up and extracted ...

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Thread: Why does Tampa Bay need an APC/tank?

  1. #76
    Ex Member Array gunther71's Avatar
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    not just swat

    I have seen polic officers with no vegetation in sight in the middle of the city wearing green digital cammies.

    they rolled up and extracted out of a white 15 passenger van, they didnt move into position through vegetation to get there.
    why the cammies?

    I remember in the 80s swat had some time of black uniform
    I never remember them wearing olive drab camo
    I do remember them wearing the old woodland pattern after the military got it
    I do remember them wearing the new digitals after the military got it
    why?

    Who said anything about bright orange?
    Do you think military guys have two different uniforms for garrison and combat?

    I think it is poor planning to have guys change out of a traditional police uniform that the public is use too and putting on military camoflauge. It is a waste of time, just throw on your tactical gear and get ready to get some.

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  3. #77
    Member Array gunsnroses's Avatar
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    Its just another step in de-sensitizing the public in the militarization of the police. Soon they will able to arrest and hold you indefinitely without ever going to trial and only based on a "suspicion" (wait, that bill passed the senate yesterday), or they will be using military drones on American citizens (wait, that is happening now).
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  4. #78
    Distinguished Member Array skysoldier29's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye .45 View Post
    What do digi cammies have to do with it? Digi patterns tend to work better than traditional camo, but for a swat team that does work in a forested area, I see no issue. I have yet to see a department where every officer wears cammies. So you take offense to officers using the best possible camo to keep themselves safe?

    They don't look like a tank, at all really. The similarities between most police armored vehicles and tanks begin and end at the armored part. A tank is an offensive weapon. Find a police armored vehicle with lethal offensive weaponry.

    Silencers are nice to have, they mean you can shoot indoors and save your hearing, while not needing to handicap yourself with earplugs (a big drawback in a lethal scenario, you need to be able to hear everything).
    Another reason for Police tactical teams to wear military style uniforms is that they handle different types of pyrotechnics. Unless the department is run by idiots they would be flame resistant to protect the officers from flash bangs and such possibly going off to close to the officers and causing burns. I believe that most police uniforms are made of polyester and would melt to the officer if it caught fire.
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  5. #79
    VIP Member Array SpencerB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunther71 View Post
    [QUOTE=buckeye .45;2103011]What do digi cammies have to do with it?

    Each branch of the military has their own camofluage patterns with their respected regulations on how to wear them, not all slopped on like some of these swat teams.

    So you take offense to officers using the best possible camo to keep themselves safe?

    I take offense to disrespecting actual military men and women, that is their every day uniform not some part time get up or to look like wannabe military

    The similarities between most police armored vehicles and tanks begin and end at the armored part. A tank is an offensive weapon.
    Obviously you have never sat in the defense when rounds were being exchanged and tanks were in that defensive position with you.

    Silencers are nice to have, they mean you can shoot indoors and save your hearing, while not needing to handicap you
    We used silencers as first shot weapons if we didnt use an explosive breaching technique, or when we were behind enemy lines,
    Obviously you have never had multiple rounds fired at you, it is also hard to hear when rounds are zinging at you
    As an active duty army soldier I have no problem with swat teams wearing digital camo. I don't see how that is disrespectful at all?

  6. #80
    VIP Member Array SpencerB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunther71 View Post
    I have seen polic officers with no vegetation in sight in the middle of the city wearing green digital cammies.

    they rolled up and extracted out of a white 15 passenger van, they didnt move into position through vegetation to get there.
    why the cammies?

    I remember in the 80s swat had some time of black uniform
    I never remember them wearing olive drab camo
    I do remember them wearing the old woodland pattern after the military got it
    I do remember them wearing the new digitals after the military got it
    why?

    Who said anything about bright orange?
    Do you think military guys have two different uniforms for garrison and combat?

    I think it is poor planning to have guys change out of a traditional police uniform that the public is use too and putting on military camoflauge. It is a waste of time, just throw on your tactical gear and get ready to get some.
    Some do have different uniforms for garrison and combat. Army gets issued multi-cams for Afghanistan, Digital camo ACUs for garrison. Navy wears the Desert BDUs or Urban camo in garrison and are issued ACU digital camos for Afghanistan.

  7. #81
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    Nope, only time I dealt with tanks, we weren't in the defense.

    I was on enough two way ranges to know how they work. How much do you want to wager that I have never been the recipient of multiple rounds fired at me gunther?
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  8. #82
    Ex Member Array gunther71's Avatar
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    I take you for your word, If you have been there then you should know how others who have been there feel. Some of us react a little different at post. I am one of those

    As for the tanks in the defense................I have seen them personally fall back in to the defense after the lead two were hit with rpgs and we all had to pull back in the defense.
    Remember, terrain dictates, not every draw down, fire fight, extract insert are exaclty the same, we all have our scars.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpencerB View Post
    Some do have different uniforms for garrison and combat. Army gets issued multi-cams for Afghanistan, Digital camo ACUs for garrison. Navy wears the Desert BDUs or Urban camo in garrison and are issued ACU digital camos for Afghanistan.
    I take you for your word been out 6 years, when i got out it was only Usmc and Army who had digitals... Af was still designing and Navy were still in blue jeans,

    Quote Originally Posted by SpencerB View Post
    As an active duty army soldier I have no problem with swat teams wearing digital camo. I don't see how that is disrespectful at all?
    Its the whole mindset of the service. When i was in(do not know if regs are still the same) If we left base other than training and we we were going home(lived off base) We could only stop in cammies if we were going to the bank, getting gas(had to pay at pump) or picking up kids from baby sitter.
    As Marines we were always taught other branches were nasty ...........example, soldier in Bdus at Walmart, Grocery Store, Resturaunt.
    But been out a while, Active Marines educate me

    Quote Originally Posted by skysoldier29 View Post
    Another reason for Police tactical teams to wear military style uniforms is that they handle different types of pyrotechnics. Unless the department is run by idiots they would be flame resistant to protect the officers from flash bangs and such possibly going off to close to the officers and causing burns. I believe that most police uniforms are made of polyester and would melt to the officer if it caught fire.
    As Force Recon Marines One of our missions was Direct action,(Close quarters battle) Hostage Rescue.
    In peace time we used flash bangs for room entry(once we got to the sand box) we figured out flash bangs sucked! and went to grenades(sorry bad guys!)
    Anyways, we used flight suits(olive drab) for the same reason you stated about pyro since cammies would often catch a flash ignite or two.
    So, I do not see your relavance there. sorry brother.
    Last edited by SIXTO; December 16th, 2011 at 11:30 AM.

  9. #83
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    I can vouch for the bit about pyro.....I have shirts and pants melted, no fun
    and BDUs are way more comfortable to be crouching down in/around/under/behind stuff on "those" calls
    it also depends on the department...some have swat out on patrol with their gear in the trunk (our departments alternates do this), others have the paged/called out and they gear up (full time swat)

    it has nothing to do with desensitizing crap, nor is it meant to be an insult/disrespect to any military branch

    and I mentioned the yellow/orange thing since you stated having a distaste for them wearing camo, better to wear camo than hunter orange type of thing

    also....budgets play an issue, one outfit with camo for all call outs rather than trying to plan wooded area vs urban vs grassy, etc, usually have one set of BDUs and thats what you go with whether in a wooded area or getting out of a van in an urban area
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  10. #84
    VIP Member Array Richard58's Avatar
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    Because our dumb federal government leaves our borders unsecured so cities are preparing for terrorist that r probably in the country already. That's the short answer.. Don't want to type the long answer....read btw the lines...

  11. #85
    Ex Member Array gunther71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    I can vouch for the bit about pyro.....I have shirts and pants melted, no fun
    and BDUs are way more comfortable to be crouching down in/around/under/behind stuff on "those" calls
    it also depends on the department...some have swat out on patrol with their gear in the trunk (our departments alternates do this), others have the paged/called out and they gear up (full time swat)

    it has nothing to do with desensitizing crap, nor is it meant to be an insult/disrespect to any military branch

    and I mentioned the yellow/orange thing since you stated having a distaste for them wearing camo, better to wear camo than hunter orange type of thing

    also....budgets play an issue, one outfit with camo for all call outs rather than trying to plan wooded area vs urban vs grassy, etc, usually have one set of BDUs and thats what you go with whether in a wooded area or getting out of a van in an urban area
    Camo melts too
    Plus, I will never understand and i will never be convinced on why civillian police need to wear military camoflauge
    Next thing you know they will have olive drab squad cars, commissaries, and base housing.

  12. #86
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    Gunther, you are stretching... a lot.

    My department does not wear cammo for normal stuff, but we do wear olive drab or black for SWAT stuff. The training uniform is standard surplus military stuff. Why? Two reasons; Its readily available and its cheap. When the military switches patterns, so does the surplus. The normal call out stuff is nomex based. At a causal glance, it looks like the standard BDU, but it is not. Because of meth labs and other dangers we run into, its this way. We do follow the military in the design and such only because we see no need to reinvent the wheel. They have already done the homework in what works and what doesnt. So we take that knowledge and make modifications for our needs from there.
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  13. #87
    Senior Member Array CowboyColby's Avatar
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    Use what works best I see no problem with it. They aren't wearing it daily running around playing army ranger. If it helps them with their job and helps conceal them better I'm all for it. My hunting clothing is sitka brand which is basically digital does it mean I'm trying to be military? No it means I use what lets me get closest to my game without being spotted.

  14. #88
    Ex Member Array gunther71's Avatar
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    ok but

    I understand the camo pattern in wooded areas, but the concealment is over rated. they are not in the woods for days at a time.

    You might use the concealment arguement which i cannot argue but................................

    Is it standard procedure for swat teams to wear keffiyeh's? In traditional Mid western pattern and style like our troops wear down range?

    I wear mossy oak when i go hunting by the way... and never seen to many hunters wearing desert tan combat boots like swat does.

  15. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunther71 View Post
    Camo melts too
    Plus, I will never understand and i will never be convinced on why civillian police need to wear military camoflauge
    Next thing you know they will have olive drab squad cars, commissaries, and base housing.
    not the cotton camo, thats why we wore cotton when welding
    if you can't understand why police wear camo based on what LEOs are telling you here, then we can't help you and we'll leave it at that,
    and the bit about drab cars, etc is just ludicrous, no comparison to officers wearing clothing that is well designed for the intended use like Sixto said above, proven design, cost, and use dictate its use, not because they want to emulate military
    I wear Oakley SI assault boots in the summer time because they have a good price, are proven, lightweight, good design, they work for me and my job...not because I want to look like I'm in the military
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  16. #90
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skysoldier29 View Post
    Another reason for Police tactical teams to wear military style uniforms is that they handle different types of pyrotechnics. Unless the department is run by idiots they would be flame resistant to protect the officers from flash bangs and such possibly going off to close to the officers and causing burns. I believe that most police uniforms are made of polyester and would melt to the officer if it caught fire.
    No, that is only an argument for using the same type material. Not the same design. Flame resistant materials also come in non-ninja designs. You can even find nice dress clothes made in cotton now days.
    Who woulda thunk it.

    Michael

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