Why does Tampa Bay need an APC/tank?

This is a discussion on Why does Tampa Bay need an APC/tank? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by mlr1m No, that is only an argument for using the same type material. Not the same design. Flame resistant materials also come ...

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Thread: Why does Tampa Bay need an APC/tank?

  1. #91
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    No, that is only an argument for using the same type material. Not the same design. Flame resistant materials also come in non-ninja designs. You can even find nice dress clothes made in cotton now days.
    Who woulda thunk it.

    Michael
    Well is there something anatomically specific about people serving in the military that makes a particular cut of clothing appropriate for them and no one else?
    Do they have to contort themselves into special positions that an officer on a SWAT call out never would? If not by your logic there is no reason for military personnel to wear the ninja designs either.

    Several years back I bought myself a set of surplus BDU's for working on a short line railroad (all the live long day!). If I was a wanna be I could have simply reenlisted. The reason I got them was I was doing track work and needed durable clothing that wouldn't bind when I had to squat and bend. They also had plenty of pockets for things like spikes, water bottles, first aid kit and bug spray. They were simply cheap, durable and comfortable. The reinforced knees and seat held up well sitting and crawling on the track bed. A pair of Dockers wouldn't last five minutes.
    So believe it or not, sometimes folks don't really care what they look like, they just want what is the best tool for the job at hand.
    64zebra likes this.
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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Well is there something anatomically specific about people serving in the military that makes a particular cut of clothing appropriate for them and no one else?
    impersonating a police officer is a law, how about impersonating a soldier?
    These swat guys wear desert boots, desert neck scarfs, desert due rags, desert subdued American flags, unit patches(who else is going to be in their jurisdiction?) dog tags in the left boot? Blood type on the sleeve,
    its a copy cat thing.

    There is nothing wrong with the traditional police uniform. when are they going to start painting the squad cars to desert camoflauge?

  4. #93
    Ex Member Array gunther71's Avatar
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    The reason I got them was I was doing track work and needed durable clothing that wouldn't bind when I had to squat and bend. They also had plenty of pockets for things like spikes, water bottles, first aid kit and bug spray. They were simply cheap, durable and comfortable. The reinforced knees and seat held up well sitting and crawling on the track bed. A pair of Dockers wouldn't last five minutes.
    So believe it or not, sometimes folks don't really care what they look like, they just want what is the best tool for the job at hand.

    The deputys around here wear 511 pants and shirts which describe every thing you listed above with durability and comfortability.
    but as soon as they get the call they diss the 511s and throw on digitals in a flash!

  5. #94
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunther71 View Post
    impersonating a police officer is a law, how about impersonating a soldier?
    These swat guys wear desert boots, desert neck scarfs, desert due rags, desert subdued American flags, unit patches(who else is going to be in their jurisdiction?) dog tags in the left boot? Blood type on the sleeve,
    its a copy cat thing.

    There is nothing wrong with the traditional police uniform. when are they going to start painting the squad cars to desert camoflauge?
    Do these SWAT guys have any military branch of service displayed on their uniform? No? Just because they were the same outfit does not mean they are impersonating. But if you want to go that way.....
    Are U.S. military snipers wanna be Scottish game keepers? After all that is who they stole the ghillie suit from.
    And construction workers have been wearing tan or brown boots for years longer the military. Are you saying our troops are wanna be day laborers?
    And the desert scarves and doo rags, are you saying our troops are wanna be camel drivers?
    It's a copycat thing like you said.
    And what is up with the subdued American Flags? Are you saying our troops are ashamed to be Americans? They should be wearing Old Glory in Red, White, and Blue! And subdued unit pathches? Again are they ashamed of who they serve with? They should wear their unit isignia proudly for all the world to see! In fact Marines should always wear their blues, sailors should always be in cracker jacks, no matter what the situation. Unless you mean to say that these brave men and women are ashamed of their service and that is why they wear camouflage.

    And why does the military paint all their vehicles camouflage? They should be international orange and flourescent green! That way the enemy can see them from further away and run away. Rather un-sportsman like trying to sneek up on the enemy like that don't you think?

    Perhaps some time you should study the principals of camouflage. The reason for multicolored outer wear is not solely to try to look like a plant. It is to break up recognizable shapes that the human eye naturally picks up. This is why back during the world wars naval vessels had black, grey, blue, and white stripes. And why aircraft had multicolored paint schemes of black brown and green on top and shades of blue and grey on the bottom. The idea was not so much to make things disappear as to make them harder to identify. A major part of surviving armed conflict is being able to put your rounds on him before he can get his on you. If you are shooting at a battleship but think it is a destroyer your range estimation is going to be way off and you are going to miss. If I am barricaded somewhere and a SWAT team is coming to get me I am going to have a much easier time spotting them in solid colored clothing, no matter what solid color it is unless I am blind. Woodland was better than OD, the digital is better than woodland.

    As far as the SWAT guys wanting to be military, most of them on my old department were former military. Some served in elite units too. They did their hitch and got out. Now instead of being deployed for ten months away from the family and half a world away, they can be deployed for two or three hours twenty minutes from home and be back in time to put the kids to bed. Not everyone gets the allure of military life.
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  6. #95
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Well is there something anatomically specific about people serving in the military that makes a particular cut of clothing appropriate for them and no one else?
    Do they have to contort themselves into special positions that an officer on a SWAT call out never would? If not by your logic there is no reason for military personnel to wear the ninja designs either.
    :SNIP:
    Actually there are modes of dress that are appropriate to some jobs and not others. Not just jobs but certain areas have different codes of what is acceptable attire. Just as most folks looking for a doctor would choose a person wearing a white lab coat over another person wearing cut offs, flip flops and a sweatshirt with the sleeves cut out. Others do not look for someone to help them in everyday situations who is wearing camo, night vision goggles, kelvar head gear with a sub machine gun slung over his shoulder. Unless of course you are in a battle zone instead of the Mall.
    Your dress can influence how the public reacts to you. It can have a calming effect or it can alarm the public.
    Try walking into a court room dressed in the cutoffs, old sleeveless sweatshirt and flip flops if you don't believe me.

    Some things are just not accepted.

    Michael

  7. #96
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Actually there are modes of dress that are appropriate to some jobs and not others. Not just jobs but certain areas have different codes of what is acceptable attire. Just as most folks looking for a doctor would choose a person wearing a white lab coat over another person wearing cut offs, flip flops and a sweatshirt with the sleeves cut out. Others do not look for someone to help them in everyday situations who is wearing camo, night vision goggles, kelvar head gear with a sub machine gun slung over his shoulder. Unless of course you are in a battle zone instead of the Mall.
    Your dress can influence how the public reacts to you. It can have a calming effect or it can alarm the public.
    Try walking into a court room dressed in the cutoffs, old sleeveless sweatshirt and flip flops if you don't believe me.

    Some things are just not accepted.

    Michael
    You are definitley right that full armor and automatic weapons are not needed for officers on a school crossing detail. The references to cops in camouflage was specifically talking about SWAT officers.

    And what would you say is an acceptable mode of dress for a SWAT team taking down a meth lab or a couple of guys barricaded inside a bank with hostages? Suit and tie? Orange traffic vests and white parade gloves?
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    I know when I was in LE and you had a hostage/shooter incident, I really liked the idea of backing off and letting these swat teams take over. Sometimes u need an armored vehicle against criminals with no regard for life with some of the equipment they have access too just look at what happened recently in DC. This group had hand grenades , rocket launchers, machine guns, etc. This is above what regular police handle daily to the extreme. I believe the Feds were called in to assist on this one. Once the Feds guys are there they do have their own personal small arms but they don't usually have time to fly in a APC. Either they use the local LE ones or a national guard one if its a shtf incident. It's all about ending the incident as soon as possible without injury or death to officials who all want to go home at shifts end.

  9. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Um... So, an APC drove by the OWS/Tampa camp, on the road, on the way to something else, and this is...news?

    And considering that it lacks a turret, armor capable of withstanding anything larger than typical small arms, and any armament of any kind, it seems a rather looooong stretch to call it a tank. It looks like a modified M113 APC, not used in front line service in many years.
    No the M113 and varient M577 are in use every day. The 113 is the most successful APC of all time. Can handle 7.62 but more powerful rounds penetrate the aluminum.
    The reason over militarized police forces have them is to get around the Posse Comitatus Act.

  10. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by M60A2 View Post
    The reason over militarized police forces have them is to get around the Posse Comitatus Act.
    Or that they are surplus vehicles already bought and paid for, and it is a lot cheaper to acquire them than it is to purchase a new purpose built machine.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  11. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Or that they are surplus vehicles already bought and paid for, and it is a lot cheaper to acquire them than it is to purchase a new purpose built machine.

    DRMO = Defense Re-use (or re utilization) and Marketing Organization. They sell all kinds of stuff, it's sort of like the military version of Goodwill. When I was on active duty I would go to our local DRMO and pick up supplies for my unit. For folks on active duty everything was free. I'd just go in to the compound and walk around a bit. When I found something we could put to good use all I had to do was sign for it. The best part was that none of it came out of our normal operating budget.

    I'm guessing that local and State governments, while not shopping for free, get big discounts.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  12. #101
    Member Array rmxer85's Avatar
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    Why do they need an APC?


    ....'cause bullets hurt. Duh!?!

    As for the entire camo war that sprang out of this thread.
    Who freaking cares what they wear!

    If my sorry ____ is up the creek without a paddle, they can be sportin' pink tutu's if they want when they show up. But I'm pretty sure tutu's aren't FR rated.
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    If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand
    and lead him to a quiet place and kill him.
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  13. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    DRMO = Defense Re-use (or re utilization) and Marketing Organization. They sell all kinds of stuff, it's sort of like the military version of Goodwill. When I was on active duty I would go to our local DRMO and pick up supplies for my unit. For folks on active duty everything was free. I'd just go in to the compound and walk around a bit. When I found something we could put to good use all I had to do was sign for it. The best part was that none of it came out of our normal operating budget.

    I'm guessing that local and State governments, while not shopping for free, get big discounts.
    Oh yeah... that is a little tidbit I forgot to mention. Joe Individual can buy a surplus APC too. Or a bearcat if he prefers.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  14. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Or that they are surplus vehicles already bought and paid for, and it is a lot cheaper to acquire them than it is to purchase a new purpose built machine.
    Why do police departments need these? Charlie is not coming over the wire. Perceptions have changed about the police.

  15. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by M60A2 View Post
    Why do police departments need these? Charlie is not coming over the wire. Perceptions have changed about the police.
    there is 102 posts before yours that already discuss this.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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