Why does Tampa Bay need an APC/tank?

Why does Tampa Bay need an APC/tank?

This is a discussion on Why does Tampa Bay need an APC/tank? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I have trouble understanding why police need armored tanks. I realize that riots occur in major cities. I understand that back in the bad old ...

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Thread: Why does Tampa Bay need an APC/tank?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Why does Tampa Bay need an APC/tank?

    I have trouble understanding why police need armored tanks.

    I realize that riots occur in major cities. I understand that back in the bad old days men like Guantes (BTW, where is he lately?) stood alone against mobs of people rioting, looting, and burning. I understand that the general public wants to be protected against such mob action.

    What I do not understand is why the people won't take it upon themselves to defend themselves from such action, as the Korean shop owners did in the riots in LA. Why would they want "standing armies" with weapons of major warfare for civil defense?

    I get a little uneasy when local police departments resort to militarism.

    link to story
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    It could be worse!
    I suppose


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    One only has to look as far a the well publicized North Hollywood shoot out. Had something like that been available, the whole thing would have ended quicker. Our county has one too, (which is badass BTW) but it is hardly a "military" vehicle. It is the latest and greatest of police "tanks". (Bearcat G3) Its armored, its black and has a beefy suspension and drive train... the tank similarity ends there.
    With crime getting more and more violent, liability getting more and more costly, I can see the need for larger agencies to have an armored vehicle, the rest is just a false perception by the public who either doesn't know any better or a public that see's what they want to see.

    Lets say for a minute you and your family is trapped in your house because a neighbor goes looney and is holding your block hostage with a 30.06- Do you want an armored vehicle coming to get you, or an old bread truck?

    Other than that, the linked story is a garbage, rile up the lemmings type of story.
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    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Um... So, an APC drove by the OWS/Tampa camp, on the road, on the way to something else, and this is...news?

    And considering that it lacks a turret, armor capable of withstanding anything larger than typical small arms, and any armament of any kind, it seems a rather looooong stretch to call it a tank. It looks like a modified M113 APC, not used in front line service in many years.
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    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    It's a misleading headline. 'Sort of like "Are Tampa Police Eating Babies?"

    Like OPFOR said, he drove down the road with it. That was all.

    Any tool or weapon can be misused. In this case, it hasn't.
    __________________________________
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    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    I think it would be put to better use, if they would sink it in the bay, for a man-made reef.
    We can always use another hot spot for fishing.
    Just my $.02 cents
    "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it".
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    One only has to look as far a the well publicized North Hollywood shoot out. Had something like that been available, the whole thing would have ended quicker. Our county has one too, (which is badass BTW) but it is hardly a "military" vehicle. It is the latest and greatest of police "tanks". (Bearcat G3) Its armored, its black and has a beefy suspension and drive train... the tank similarity ends there.
    With crime getting more and more violent, liability getting more and more costly, I can see the need for larger agencies to have an armored vehicle, the rest is just a false perception by the public who either doesn't know any better or a public that see's what they want to see.

    Lets say for a minute you and your family is trapped in your house because a neighbor goes looney and is holding your block hostage with a 30.06- Do you want an armored vehicle coming to get you, or an old bread truck?

    Other than that, the linked story is a garbage, rile up the lemmings type of story.
    While I'll admit the story is designed to make TBPD look "over the top" I still question the need...

    The old bread truck wouldn't smack so much of Waco...

    And 1 guy with a 30.06 is gonna hold a whole neighborhood.. there are back doors ya know...
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    But you did understand the point I was making-
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    But you did understand the point I was making-
    Yes I did... It's a catch 22... 'those who give up liberty for safety' and all that...

    Cedar Rapids used to have helicopters... in fact they had like the world's 3rd largest "air force" (most of the helicopters were for parts to keep two running). They were used mostly for traffic control, but did have FLIR and were able to track criminals and find lost Alzheimer patients... Unfortunately, they couldn't maintain funding... and replaced them with speed cameras and red light cameras (which are far more lucrative and don't require as much manpower).
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stubborn View Post
    I think it would be put to better use, if they would sink it in the bay, for a man-made reef.
    We can always use another hot spot for fishing.
    Just my $.02 cents
    That is actually what has been done with many M113s... :)
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Yes I did... It's a catch 22... 'those who give up liberty for safety' and all that...
    So what liberty is forfeited with an APC?
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    That is actually what has been done with many M113s... :)
    They are still around. I have seen them mostly as CASEVAC with a redcross on the side.
    "When war does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the
    scabbard." -General Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson

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    Oh, no doubt, the platform survives in some guises, and CASEVAC is one where it has maintained. Command vehicles are another. But the vast majority of M113s are gone, and many of those have ended up being someone's secret fishin' hole. :)
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    I have trouble understanding why police need armored tanks.
    Didn't you see Die Hard?

    Granted it didn't turn out well for them.
    CCW permit holder for Idaho, Utah, Pennsylvania, Maine and New Hampshire. I can carry in your country but not my own.

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    I wrote my U.S. Senator last year about a particular law enforcement agency purchasing some 20 mm sniper rifles. He agreed with me that arming police with military weapons was nothing more than a back door approach to get around the prohibition against using the military against us.
    I see no problem with an APC in itself. I do have a problem with those who fail to see the potential danger of its use.

    Michael
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    So what liberty is forfeited with an APC?
    Fair question... it is not the thing itself... it is the concept or idea. Why do we (through TSA) need mobile backscatter scanners? It's just a thing.

    Why do citizens (in the states where allowed) need to have special tax licenses to own automatic weapons? The police can have them... purportedly to use against criminals who may have them as well... but the citizen is not allowed to defend himself in such a way...

    As Michael points out, there is the potential for misuse... of any object, whether an OC spray bomb as used recently against those peaceably assembled, or an APC against _______????

    Egypt recently ousted it's leader, an the citizenry lauded it's army for not moving against them... yet today, the army is still in control... and the citizenry is again beginning to act for what they want... a democratically elected government.

    We aren't Egypt, obviously... but there is the potential...
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    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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