Taser

This is a discussion on Taser within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Hello. We have finally been authorized Tasers where I work but we pay for the weapon and training ourselves. From a liability and personal defense ...

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    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    Taser

    Hello. We have finally been authorized Tasers where I work but we pay for the weapon and training ourselves. From a liability and personal defense standpoint keeping in mind that in most instances if I deploy my tazer the individual being tazed is going to wind up in cuffs, which is better? The M26/M18 or the C2. I wish I could afford an X26 but it just is not in my budget. Which would you carry in a private law enforcement job and why?
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

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    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    I would save up for the X26. The M26 and C2 is made for civilian use so they can shot it and run away while the person is still on the ground being tased for 30 seconds. You being in law enforcement need to have that taser off soon so you can throw the cuffs on them. That is the reason why the X26 shuts off in 5 seconds.
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    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    The M18 model is the predecessor to the X26, it has a five second burst.
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

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    I would not carry one. To much liability and cost for an item you will be left holding the bag for in all respects should you use it.

    But, if I were hard headed and dead set on getting a new toy, I'd go with the M26 over the C2 any day of the week. Its going to get mighty expensive to go through the Taser training with a C2. Then again, I'm pretty sure taser does not support the m26's anymore. So when it breaks, (notice I said when, not if) you are SOL.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    The company holds all liability if we use it, this is why we have to purchase it and pay for our training before we can carry it on the job. I just feel more comfortable entering an apartment to clear it out with a taser in my hand if someone rushes me than a handgun. I do not feel I would be justified in the heat of the moment for shooting someone who turns out to be unarmed, pepper spray is not fast enough to be effective. I feel a taser is less liability than a handgun if I should have to use it in that situation.
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    The company holds all liability if we use it, this is why we have to purchase it and pay for our training before we can carry it on the job. I just feel more comfortable entering an apartment to clear it out with a taser in my hand if someone rushes me than a handgun. I do not feel I would be justified in the heat of the moment for shooting someone who turns out to be unarmed, pepper spray is not fast enough to be effective. I feel a taser is less liability than a handgun if I should have to use it in that situation.
    Yeah, get the training.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Yeah, get the training.
    x2

    One of the 1st things that they teach in taser training is that the taser IS NOT to be used in place of a firearm. It is only used in cases where you would otherwise have to go hands on with someone. Of course your department should have a policy on how and when a taser should be used.
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    The main differences between the M26 and X26 are size, batteries, and the pulse technology of the X26. The C2 is a civilian model and to me is not suitable for LE.

    Both shut off at 5 seconds, both use the same cartridges and both do basically the same thing. When I first purchased Tasers for the department the M26 was the single choice. Every officer had one and the training and documentation to go with it. As stated it is not to be used in place of a firearm and building searches are a place for a firearm initially not a Taser.

    I purchased an X26 when they came out and carried it. The decreased size was good but persons in our city got used to seeing the officers carrying the M26 in a thigh rig and would often miss the fact that I had one on my belt. That misconception ended quickly the first time I used it. The X26 has/had the new "Pulse Technology" which was stated to be more effective. Both worked without fail however I could tell the difference when hit with the X26 but both were extremely painful.

    I had a very simple direct policy in regards to Tasers. The officer would inform the suspect he was under arrest or to cease whatever they were doing for us to be there in the first place one time or the Taser would be deployed. If the suspect then cooperated he was cuffed and all ended well. Upon refusal to either submit to arrest or cease what they were doing they were Tazed. They were then cuffed and all ended well.

    In the jail same basic rules one warning except we would remove the cartridge and show an arc to the prisoner so there was no doubt what was coming and the rest was up to him/her. You must be careful not to become Taser dependent and use it just to use it. The advantage with them is that once word gets out that you will use them often times it will end a problem before it starts. We did however find in some cases especially with intoxicated individuals that their buddies would often egg them on to resist or simply not cooperate in order to watch them get Tazed.

    We never had a failure to stop with the Taser it worked as advertised everytime. I personally have taken multiple hits in training classes and ridden the bull, taken the full 5 second ride, many times without any harm done. It is a very effective tool but only one of many types of tools that you need to be trained with and have at your disposal.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    The company holds all liability if we use it, this is why we have to purchase it and pay for our training before we can carry it on the job. I just feel more comfortable entering an apartment to clear it out with a taser in my hand if someone rushes me than a handgun. I do not feel I would be justified in the heat of the moment for shooting someone who turns out to be unarmed, pepper spray is not fast enough to be effective. I feel a taser is less liability than a handgun if I should have to use it in that situation.
    Never clear a building with anything less effective than a pistol.
    That said, I would save for x26. Just always have a plan B, because ive had the taser prove useless on several occasions. Way too many variables to put all your eggs in the taser basket. It's a super tool if you respect its limitations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    The company holds all liability if we use it, this is why we have to purchase it and pay for our training before we can carry it on the job. I just feel more comfortable entering an apartment to clear it out with a taser in my hand if someone rushes me than a handgun. I do not feel I would be justified in the heat of the moment for shooting someone who turns out to be unarmed, pepper spray is not fast enough to be effective. I feel a taser is less liability than a handgun if I should have to use it in that situation.
    Ummm, and what if the person rushing you is presenting a lethal threat, and one of the barbs for one reason doesn't get into the skin?

    If you are in a two man team clearing a structure, I can almost see it, but I would have the rear man with a taser, and the front man would still have a pistol out.

    Don't get me wrong, tasers are a good tool, and have their purpose. But a single shot weapon that has a potential for failure due to several factors (thick clothing, one barb missing the target ect...) would not be my first choice for clearing a building (and that is a thing I have done once or twice, and not just in training).

    But, all that being said, stick with an LE model. The C2 is not meant for the type of use you are wanting one for.
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    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    Buckeye, I did not get into specifics with our procedure, for officer safety when doing a building sweep or room clear, we go in with two man teams at all times, it is against policy for a single officer to enter and clear an apartment or residence unless there is an immediate threat to life inside.
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

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    Member Array oneeyedwilly's Avatar
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    I really enjoyed this thread.


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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    Buckeye, I did not get into specifics with our procedure, for officer safety when doing a building sweep or room clear, we go in with two man teams at all times, it is against policy for a single officer to enter and clear an apartment or residence unless there is an immediate threat to life inside.
    That still doesn't answer the question as to why you would want to trade a multiple shot lethal weapon with a higher chance of success, for a single shot less than lethal that can have malfunctions for a variety of reasons when going into a potentially life threatening situation.

    A taser has a role in the less than lethal force continuum, and it is a great tool for within that role IMO. But I believe that for your intended stated purpose, the taser is the wrong tool. If you don't feel that you are able to make a split second decision as to whether or not someone is a lethal threat with confidence, that sounds like a training/mindset issue, not a gear issue.

    Also worth noting, which I haven't seen you, the C2 has a 15 foot range, as does the M18/M26. The X26 is 35 feet
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye .45 View Post
    That still doesn't answer the question as to why you would want to trade a multiple shot lethal weapon with a higher chance of success, for a single shot less than lethal that can have malfunctions for a variety of reasons when going into a potentially life threatening situation.

    A taser has a role in the less than lethal force continuum, and it is a great tool for within that role IMO. But I believe that for your intended stated purpose, the taser is the wrong tool. If you don't feel that you are able to make a split second decision as to whether or not someone is a lethal threat with confidence, that sounds like a training/mindset issue, not a gear issue.

    Also worth noting, which I haven't seen you, the C2 has a 15 foot range, as does the M18/M26. The X26 is 35 feet
    yes
    when clearing building you are preparing for worst case situation which is a dirtbag in there with a gun, no time for taser
    in 2-man team where one officer is lethal and other is non, that is appropriate for certain situations, not building clearing

    and taser x26 cartridges come in 21, 25, 35 feet probe packs, we carry the 25ft

    it appears that the x26c has only 15ft cartridges
    Personal Defense Products: TASER® X26c

    for LE I'd only go with an x26
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    INccwchris I do have to say your different post are interesting to say the least........

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