My family and I (wife who is 6mo pregnant, 4yr old son and 10mo old daughter) have travel plans from Dallas to Chicago to see my family for a few days coming up very soon. But the more I read about these inappropriate pat-downs being given by the TSA at airports everywhere, the more I just want to stay home for the holidays and not deal with it. I've been travelling for work a little bit lately and haven't had to do a pat-down yet, but I did have to go through the scanner once. Now, its not as big a deal for me, but I can see myself getting quite pissed if someone (female or not) wants to pat down my wife and/or kids. We teach our 4 year old not to talk to people that he doesn't already know or that mommy or daddy aren't already talking to, and he's very good about it. If a stranger comes up to us and talks to him first, he doesn't say a word, he just turns and looks at me first. But allowing a stranger to touch my wife or very young (and impressionable) son in the ways I've been reading and seeing in news reports and videos taken by bystanders makes my blood boil. So how common are these pat-downs anyway? Is there any recourse that can be taken if it is done inappropriately? Do I have a leg to stand on if I threaten a sexual assault charge on the TSA SCREENER (they are not sworn agents of anything)? What would you do? If you are travelling for the holidays, what are you planning on doing? I find it best to plan my actions ahead of time and not wait until the heat of the moment when I'm mad and end up only making the situation worse. So... thoughts? Recommendations??
Just flew into Florida with my wife and two young kids. Getting though security was a breeze. I was very impressed at how professional the airline was about me traveling with my pistol.
I have been patted down by TSA I have an internal medical pump in my lower abdomen,I have had to remove my shoes with metal eyelets before,It's a pain due to my disabilities but I no longer fly with anything metal on my shoes,During the patdown it was less invasive than an LEO frisking you for weapons,I showed the guy the area/pump bump and he then let me proceed.I realise that the Israelis have a great Airport security screening process,but in all fairness I don't think that they process 5% of the amount of people that fly everyday in the US
Not the TSA so much as the general hassle to fly nowadays... not to mention the fees for every freaking little thing. The airlines can thank themselves for my seat being empty.
News just had segment....TSA "confiscates" box of cupcakes with fancy raised icying...apparent violation of "jelled" substance prohibition..yup got the whole box...Arizona....mixed doz of donuts probibly wouldnt make it eather..."suspicious" white powder, jell substance hidden inside of the pastries...http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/ar...224tsa-confiscates-cupcake-frosting-risk.html
With 5000+ hours in the cockpit as a military aircrew member I have found flying as a pax the most boring thing in the world, just slightly more so as watching some sports exhibition on TV. Plus having a medical implant I would be required to submit to the TSA grope since it is recommended that I do not go through a scanner or magnetometer. The only way I would fly nowadays is if I could find a military hop going where I want to go otherwise I will drive instead.
Way too many sheep in this country. "Just get in line and suck it up because we have to" is the sheep mantra. And the all too familiar favorite "it is for your safety". I fly cause I have to and I make a stink whenever a new TSA rule or interpretation comes up. I almost got in trouble because I questioned the competance of a TSA screener and TSA policy overall. They checked my back pack and it came up suspicious for residue that could be used for an explosive. It WAS residue from an explosive. I used it for demo training that week TDY. When I told the screener that he said "OK, no problem, thank you for your service". Then, since I had the time I asked him why did you bother testing if all I had to do was provide you with an answer that a would be bomber could give you. They called a supervisor who told me that I should not use that bag for travel anymore because it can cause delays. It is my bag, residue does not mean bomb. He said it means I could have been making a bomb and I replied I was. After all that I still was able to board. Does that make any of you sheep out there feel safer?
So, they tell me not to take my bag on board, can't have a female carry a purse with a raised picture of a gun, and now you can't have cupcakes with jelly frosting and God forbid you look suspicious and the pilot on his own can kick you off. And that is after all the screenings, secondarey screenings, pat downs. and he can do that just because he doesn't like you. Am I out of my head here. When will it end. Do the sheep feel safer now when the pilot doesn't trust the screenings??????????? My only answer to this is this" I have to fly because there is no other choice. I will not relax, get brushed up on TSA policy's and procedures, walk quietly in line and pretend our rights are not getting trampled on. " Some sheep here have posted and I did not quote them because it is there right to feel like they do. If someone wants to be a sheep, it is not my place to tell them to stick up for your rights. Those clowns are doing what they are told to do. Now I will have my coffee.
The chances that you or your family will get a pat down are rare specially if you follow a few rules. Take everything metallic (coins, pens, keys toys, belts, wallet) off yourself and put it in a bag and send through the scanner. Stand still when you are being scanned.
I fly regularly and follow these rules and have never been patted down. Also, your son who is 4 is unlikely to be patted down. I believe that the new TSA policy is not to pat done kids under 10. Check with them.
I know that TSA tends to be intrusive and we all get mad at them. They are just doing their job and most of them are nice people - a few bad apples do creep in. So don't let these bad apples screw up your trip. Chicago is a great city and you will have fun.
What conspiracy theory? I said people line up like sheep and obey without question authority. It is true more of our rights are infringed upon and more invasive the government has become. And if you are referring to me to then sir you are wrong for misquoting me. You are so far out of context. If you do not like my statements then ignore or refute them with an intelligent argument. You tell me if TSA is effective (do not say there have been nor more 9/11's). Hijack policy changed that day about compliance with hijackers and that sir most of all has kept us safe without infringing on our rights. So sir, refute what I have said and tell me how our lives are freer now than before 9/11. I can state facts that are recognized by all (not people wearing tin foil hats) meaning, left, right, and center of any political affiliation.
I don't see how it's a conspiract "theory" when the are DHS checkpoints across the country, TSA is not on the highways stopping citizens and hauling them off to Dept of Immigration when they don't produce their Birth Certificates on demend...and so on and so on.
Seriously, you call people sheep and my reaction is that you're just angry that the rest of us don't join your flock. I do what I will, I go where I will, I am generally law abiding and always avoid asserting my "rights" whenever it'll cause me more problems than it can get me out of.
It's sort of like I was told many years ago at Orange Gunsite, don't ever carry a gun anyplace where it'll get you in more trouble than it'll get you out of.
I'm sure that the LEO folks on this board can tell you that the biggest nuisances are citizens who don't normally have any interaction with the Law and are quite full of their own righteousness when the police do show up for some reason.
Get it through your head, no one is a sheep, no one is a sheepdog either. We're all basically predatory apes who have to establish rules for social order or we'd have never gotten past clubbing each other with crudely knapped rocks
If sir you are still referring to me then all I can tell you is that you did not answer any of the things I asked before. I am not angry anybody sir. But I replied to your last post and you sir seem angry. I asked if we were freer than we were before 9/11. Has the government been more invasive in our lives. If you can not answer then do not. If you can and have facts to back it up then state them. My original comment were not for a single individual nor an attack against a single person. People choose how they want to live. You sir, are the one turning this into a personal attack. You do not know my background, nor situations I have been in. You doo not know my involvement and or knowledge of LEO's. And if LEO does show up at my house with a question I might or might not answer it because I don't like guessing games. If they ask a question and tell me why they asked it I would normally help them out. I have had police try to do the "interrogation" thing during traffic stops. I don't play. They do not have a right to search my car and I always say no.
My question sir, is why does that bother you? Are you going to answer questions or turn this into a personal attack?
I will finish with one thing that won't convince you but proves my point. You stated "I am generally law abiding and always avoid asserting my "rights" whenever it'll cause me more problems than it can get me out of". Are you afraid of problems that may arise interaction with a police officer? Or other reasons. See sir, the Constitution gives us rights. Those rights are inherent, so there is no such thing as asserting them. I do not have to assert something that is given.
And my questioning of the TSA screener must bother you. I was told not to use that bag again. Something I purchased. Why should I have to buy another bag when they let me on with the thing to begin with. To appease them and make my life easier?
Now, you can refute, ignore, or just make a statement.
Sorry, last thing: I am polite to all I interact with , including LEO. I might not let them do what they want all the time like search my car. They can get a warrant. It is in the Constitution. But I digress, I know people can be jerks and righteous and they are a nusiance for LEO and others. But being a nusiance is more important than submitting willingly to invasions of our rights and privacy.
First, this thread is about the TSA and flying, not car searches, not cops coming to your door.
The procedures implemented by the TSA are predominantly theater. Are there better options? Probably. Have "we" become inconvenienced and is air travel more invasive than it was a decade ago, definitely. Can you use your bag with chemical residue? Apparently so, but you do so knowing you will get extra scrutiny. Personally I try to minimize the inconvenience by not doing things like that. Like any other LEO encounter, there is a right way and a wrong way to contest it. At the airport check in line is not the right place, just like the side of the road isn't where you contest a traffic ticket. You won't change anything with that type of tactic.
The. Baaah Baaah statements, however, are pointless, insulting, and inflammatory.
I did say the sheep sounds were a joke and I meant it. I put that in to be funny. A person that was posting did the sheep sound thing and meant it to be pointless,insulting, and inflammatory. When I say something I mean it. It was not meant to be insulting. If it bothered you then sorry. Quite honestly I am not really offended by anything but know people are so I made sure my intentions were clear. I want this to be clear: I do not look for trouble, but I do not bow to authority because it is convenient. I respect authority when it is lawful. I respect authority when it makes sense. I do not respect authority when it is not lawful or does not make sense. And to summarize everything: too many people do not question authority because they are concerned it could cause problems (I am talking about the airport). Saw a husband and wife in front of me waiting to get through security. They were next in line when the TSA worker came over and changed the ropes for the lanes. He opened up two more lanes of which we were stuck in the back and people behind us were in front of us now. The guy was going to say something to the TSA guy and say hey, we have been in line longer than these folks. Wife said "don't cause any trouble". I went to the TSA guy and told him what he did put us back another 15 minute. He didn't care. People are afraid to say anything that is confrontational to the TSA because they are afraid of raising awareness to themselves. That sir, is the point,it is not having to wait in line longer (unjustly) because of an incompetent worker, but where we are afraid to question authority.
My solution to this problem is crude yet very effective. I eat 1/2 dz hardboiled eggs wash it down with a couple of beers go to bed. By the time you hit the TSA they will speed you along.
My solution to this problem is crude yet very effective. I eat 1/2 dz hardboiled eggs wash it down with a couple of beers go to bed. By the time you hit the TSA they will speed you along.
Think back...Clinton White House...Olympic games...747 shot down into long Island sound...and all the fantastic theather that entailed ignoring the Iranian revenge eliphant...and new security "rules" and features instituted by V.Pres Gore, under executive order..."id" check and the questions about your bags...the airline's didnt have a problem in the 90's with the "executive" giving orders..hec it was working out in thier favor..no-body was selling thier tickets in the news paper (no E-bay then)..you had to show ID, and the airlines liked that just fine...even though the ticket was general in nature, no-body would show a written rule or statute...(it was a secret regulation,Security)...then years later shiek Osoma flew his airplanes into the heart of the great satan..the World Trade complex...and the Federal government shut down commercial flight in the country for WEEKS...the rest is as we say history...
"WE" are not sheep...."WE" are frogs, done well........
Actually...I lived in NJ at the time that the flight was shot down and yes..personally saw undeniable evidence (with my own eyes) that it was shot down. My how soon we forget and try to pass things off as myth or lore. Who was responsible? Still open for debate.
It was I that said that. And I have seen it as in the example in my post. But everyone is different in the way they deal with situations. But I said my peace:smile:. BTW: it is NH, not Vermont. I worked on their repeater about 3 years ago.
I was reading a monthly newsletter I subscribe to, crypto-gram by Bruce Schneier. In the December 15th, 2011 copy, there is a link to a rather lengthy article about the TSA. Apparently a reporter, Barbara S. Peterson of Condé Nast Traveler took a part time job with the TSA to investigate the reports of the program's failings. Here is a link to the article: Inside Job: My Life as an Airport Screener : Expert Travel Tips : Conde Nast Traveler I found it to be quite enlightening and thought I would pass it on.
Just returned from a roundtrip with my wife, daughter and a 20 month old. I found TSA Staff professional, courteous, helpful and friendly. All in all, it went very well. Our TSA contacts were early in the AM, and maybe everyone was fresher and friendlier, but I was impressed
The TSA personnel I interacted with this past Christmas/New Year's trip were at least polite (and in PHX they were friendly with a sense of humor!). What disturbed me was the fact the hi-tech x-ray backscatter scanners could not only not "see" through paper in your pockets, it couldn't penetrate the cargo pockets on my pants! So all a terrorist needs to do is wear two layers of clothes?? And we paid millions for these devices.
The TSA personnel I interacted with this past Christmas/New Year's trip were at least polite (and in PHX they were friendly with a sense of humor!). What disturbed me was the fact the hi-tech x-ray backscatter scanners could not only not "see" through paper in your pockets, it couldn't penetrate the cargo pockets on my pants! So all a terrorist needs to do is wear two layers of clothes?? And we paid millions for these devices.
I know this because I was told by the TSA to take all objects out of my pockets including paper before they scanned me (and I've been informed of this multiple times going through both versions of the scanners). After they scanned me, they asked if I had something in my cargo pockets because the scanners couldn't see clearly through them (their words). They then asked me if I had anything in my cargo pockets, to which I replied "no" (and they let me go without verifying this!). My pockets were in fact empty. From this, I can only conclude these scanners can't see through belts, wallets, multiple layers of cloth or even paper.
Actually told the last TSA guy that he should have some hand warmers. It got a laugh, at least I hope that was what he was laughing at.
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