Does TSA Make Anyone Else Not Want to Fly This Holiday Season??

This is a discussion on Does TSA Make Anyone Else Not Want to Fly This Holiday Season?? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by wdbailey It's sort of like I was told many years ago at Orange Gunsite, don't ever carry a gun anyplace where it'll ...

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Thread: Does TSA Make Anyone Else Not Want to Fly This Holiday Season??

  1. #91
    Member Array Speculator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wdbailey View Post
    It's sort of like I was told many years ago at Orange Gunsite, don't ever carry a gun anyplace where it'll get you in more trouble than it'll get you out of.
    This is ludicrous. If we KNEW when we needed a firearm, we could leave it in the safe the rest of the time. So, I wouldn't carry a firearm if I was going, oh, let's see, Deep Sea Diving...nor would I have a gunfight inside a Nitroglycerine depot. Otherwise, where are these mythical places Orange Gunsite knows about?
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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    I know we differ on the political side of the isle, but this is good. We are only as free as they let us be...
    I know. As much as I claim to be a Lib....posts like this make me think I'm at least a moderate.


    Okay Dennis.....you were right about me :)
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  4. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunsnroses View Post
    I know. As much as I claim to be a Lib....posts like this make me think I'm at least a moderate.


    Okay Dennis.....you were right about me :)
    Nowthat we are getting off topic LOL, I am a card carrying Libertarian, oh, wait a minute, we libertarians don't have cards

  5. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I did say the sheep sounds were a joke and I meant it. I put that in to be funny.
    Understood. I, personally, was not offended. However, I was doing most of my reading on a phone with tapatalk which has shall we say, a slight loss of fidelity, especially in regards to icons and such which makes connotation harder to interpret. My concern regarding the comment being inflammatory is that is the sort of thing that will get threads shut down.

    <snip for brevity> People are afraid to say anything that is confrontational to the TSA because they are afraid of raising awareness to themselves. That sir, is the point,it is not having to wait in line longer (unjustly) because of an incompetent worker, but where we are afraid to question authority.
    For what it is worth, I absolutely agree with you in principle, though perhaps I disagree with your methods. As I said in my last post, I think arguing with the agent isn't going to win you any battles. It might make you feel better, but it won't accomplish anything meaningful in the long term. In order to do that, the problem needs to be addressed at the higher levels. Since TSA and DHS are effectively outside of the reach of the citizen, it means it needs to be dealt with through our legislators.

    Quote Originally Posted by gunsnroses
    I understand the premise of Suntzu's post and I agree with it. We shouldn't just "roll over" just because its convenient. If Leo's want to search me or my car or purse, I better be in hand cuffs and under arrest for something. Otherwise, you better get a warrant or a dog. I will wait, thank you!

    Why should it be any different for TSA?
    The difference with TSA is that when you fly, you are tacitly agreeing to be bound by their restrictions. It doesn't make it right and it certainly is NOT right. No, we should not roll over, but we should focus our efforts at the source of the problem. The agents doing the grunt work for the most part are just drones doing what they are told or what they think they have been told. The pressure needs to be applied to the masters.

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCrulesU
    TSA has now taken to the highways of America performing "citizenship checks" and haling people away to department of immigration centers. So car searches can be relevant to this topic.
    This doesn't surprise me. On one hand I think it is wrong, on the other hand I see the problem (thinking of the thread) will illegal aliens and I am reminded of Hopyard's warnings of a papers please society. I really wish I had an easy answer.

  6. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post

    This doesn't surprise me. On one hand I think it is wrong, on the other hand I see the problem (thinking of the thread) will illegal aliens and I am reminded of Hopyard's warnings of a papers please society. I really wish I had an easy answer.
    I think it is DHS in the form of ICE which has long been a subject of debate about inland check points. I recall some discussions of these a few years back; especially with regard to one near El Paso and one in either Vermont or New Hampshire, can't recall.

    The "papers" please society is a bit more pernicious and sneaky than check points miles from the actual border. The real problem is the way they have become a way of life in the commercial world; so businesses end up doing the 'dirty work' of government. The situation needs watching though before we have a population of non-persons.

    Someone earlier posted in this thread (sorry I didn't go back to check who, and I'm just repeating what was quoted in your last post, #94)

    "People are afraid to say anything that is confrontational to the TSA because they are afraid of raising awareness to themselves. That sir, is the point,it is not having to wait in line longer (unjustly) because of an incompetent worker, but where we are afraid to question authority."

    Much as I don't like the general nature of TSA and how they do business, I think the fear expressed above is a bit unnecessary.

    I know I have twice had some pretty heated discussions with TSA folk which could easily have turned very ugly; were ugly except for the absence of threats and filthy language. In the first instance I think we both decided to just back down and walk away. And in the second I was literally followed from the check point by the offender offering profuse apologies and asking forgiveness, which was given.

    I think it is possible to stand up for yourself or your family member and come out ahead, and not in jail. At least that has been my experience -YMMV.

    [Actually, now that I think of it, I had a pretty heated encounter with a security agent elsewhere (AU), not in the US. She was literally having some sort of meltdown, as in hysterical, and I thought I would be arrested. Fortunately the uniformed officer who intervened had a sense of humor and let me on my way. I never figured out what precipitated that. It was the last in a series of odd things while checking in. I think my name was confused with someone they really were looking for and scared of. Even when I handed my passport to the counter clerk to get my boarding pass she got a terrified look on her face. I'm not that ugly.]
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    It was I that said that. And I have seen it as in the example in my post. But everyone is different in the way they deal with situations. But I said my peace. BTW: it is NH, not Vermont. I worked on their repeater about 3 years ago.

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    I was reading a monthly newsletter I subscribe to, crypto-gram by Bruce Schneier. In the December 15th, 2011 copy, there is a link to a rather lengthy article about the TSA. Apparently a reporter, Barbara S. Peterson of Condé Nast Traveler took a part time job with the TSA to investigate the reports of the program's failings. Here is a link to the article: Inside Job: My Life as an Airport Screener : Expert Travel Tips : Conde Nast Traveler I found it to be quite enlightening and thought I would pass it on.
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  9. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    I was reading a monthly newsletter I subscribe to, crypto-gram by Bruce Schneier. In the December 15th, 2011 copy, there is a link to a rather lengthy article about the TSA. Apparently a reporter, Barbara S. Peterson of Condé Nast Traveler took a part time job with the TSA to investigate the reports of the program's failings. Here is a link to the article: Inside Job: My Life as an Airport Screener : Expert Travel Tips : Conde Nast Traveler I found it to be quite enlightening and thought I would pass it on.
    Interesting but 4 1/2 years old. If anything in IMO TSA has gotten worse and more invasive and restricting more items all the time.

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    Just returned from a roundtrip with my wife, daughter and a 20 month old. I found TSA Staff professional, courteous, helpful and friendly. All in all, it went very well. Our TSA contacts were early in the AM, and maybe everyone was fresher and friendlier, but I was impressed

  11. #100
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    The TSA personnel I interacted with this past Christmas/New Year's trip were at least polite (and in PHX they were friendly with a sense of humor!). What disturbed me was the fact the hi-tech x-ray backscatter scanners could not only not "see" through paper in your pockets, it couldn't penetrate the cargo pockets on my pants! So all a terrorist needs to do is wear two layers of clothes?? And we paid millions for these devices.

  12. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoFan View Post
    The TSA personnel I interacted with this past Christmas/New Year's trip were at least polite (and in PHX they were friendly with a sense of humor!). What disturbed me was the fact the hi-tech x-ray backscatter scanners could not only not "see" through paper in your pockets, it couldn't penetrate the cargo pockets on my pants! So all a terrorist needs to do is wear two layers of clothes?? And we paid millions for these devices.
    Just curious about how you know that? Were you able to see the images? Seems a bit of a major technology failure if true.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  13. #102
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    I know this because I was told by the TSA to take all objects out of my pockets including paper before they scanned me (and I've been informed of this multiple times going through both versions of the scanners). After they scanned me, they asked if I had something in my cargo pockets because the scanners couldn't see clearly through them (their words). They then asked me if I had anything in my cargo pockets, to which I replied "no" (and they let me go without verifying this!). My pockets were in fact empty. From this, I can only conclude these scanners can't see through belts, wallets, multiple layers of cloth or even paper.

  14. #103
    mel
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    Actually told the last TSA guy that he should have some hand warmers. It got a laugh, at least I hope that was what he was laughing at.

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