Watching "Alaska State Troopers", noticed a subject handcuffed in front...

This is a discussion on Watching "Alaska State Troopers", noticed a subject handcuffed in front... within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by NYCrulesU Not my agency. And I know many, from various states up and down the East Coast that would..and do. So do ...

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Thread: Watching "Alaska State Troopers", noticed a subject handcuffed in front...

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYCrulesU View Post
    Not my agency. And I know many, from various states up and down the East Coast that would..and do.
    So do I , and one of them local in the area. They are good at 'generating' revenue at 2:00 a.m. when the bars close.

    As far as handcuffing, if anyone believes that handcuffing someone behind their back is a cure all, they haven't seen how fast some people can slip them under their legs and to the front. Never assume anything. It's all a matter of which side you want them , to be able to grab the cuffs and their arms, etc. to control them if it is necessary. IT's harder to run with them behind their back.

    Ask the officer who cuffed the guy (behind his back) and put him in the back seat (but left the door open with his car running), what happened. When he left him unattended "a second", the guy slipped his cuffs under his legs to the front, jumped out his door and into the front seat, and took off with his cruiser. LOL.
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  3. #17
    Ex Member Array NYCrulesU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kb2wji View Post
    Wow. NYCrulesU....I find it disturbing how you can openly trash your department, and the system. Yes, there are plenty of flaws and plenty of loopholes. I find it very hard to believe that the majority of leo's that you know are part of the problem. Out of the hundreds of officers I deal with, I can count the bad apples on one hand. It seems to me that you feel the problem is the majority. To openly call Judges, Sheriffs, and Mayors "crooked" is disturbing. This is the system you are sworn to uphold, flaws or not. My guess is you would be slightly happier in a different profession. I'm not so sure i'd feel as safe with police running around who are only looking for a paycheck, and think the rest of it is BS.

    Theres a ton of frustration associated with the job. The court system has its flaws. At times it makes me want to pull my hair out. There is a difference between that and feeling that the whole community of LEO's and Judge's are greedy, unethical and corrupt. I'm not sure where you work, but i'm sorry that you feel its as bad as it is. Just please dont assume we're all like that.
    I didn't say whole or all. But I am saying 75%, being fair.

  4. #18
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    If this is the one I am thinking of he was placed in a boat aper a friend of mine that lives up there if they are being transported in a boat they must be cuffed in front because if something happens they can still hang on to the boat
    Negative.

    I'm on our County Boat Patrol. When in a boat, no one gets cuffed. If that boat hits something and sinks, the dept is liable for all passengers/prisoners. You do not cuff prisoners in the boat.
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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    I cuff in the back most of the time.

    Not every single time but most of the time.

    If a person is known to me, not a flight risk, and being cuffed as a matter of policy rather than necessity, I'll cuff in the front.

    Since the car has a cage, and I never let a prisoner walk behind me, I don't see it as a big deal.
    A fellow officer picked up a guy very well-known to almost all of us. He had never been violent even though he had been picked up numerous times. It was "routine". He was given a cursory pat-down (he had never carried a weapon), handcuffed in front, and put in the back of the car. On the way to the jail, he asked the officer if the barrier between the front and back seat was bullet proof. The officer said that it was. He pulled the car into what we called the Sally Port at the jail, closed the steel garage door behind him, got out of the car and locked his own gun in the provided lock box, then went to retrieve the prisoner from the car. He opened the back door and was facing the wrong end of a .44 magnum. He deflected the muzzle with his left hand as the "non-violent" prisoner pulled the trigger. Unfortunately the officer did not have his hand clear of the muzzle. The blast removed his left thumb. He managed to physically restrain the prisoner despite his injury until a couple of jailers came to help.

    I personally approached an older drunk one night to see if I could call someone or give him a ride home. His response was to pull a knife on me.

    Be polite. Be professional. Follow the procedures that have been designed to protect you - every time. If someone is worth handcuffing, handcuff behind their back - and still expect the unexpected. Nothing is "routine". Routine will get you killed. That's the big deal.

  6. #20
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    This thread is way, way off topic. It's a shame what NYC is talking about, I don't know where he works or why he is in L.E... Sounds like he is in the wrong department, wrong profession for the wrong reason. If you can't make a manufacting charge stick, something is seriously wrong. Either the court sucks ( really, all the judges?) or you suck as a cop and have troubl putting together solid cases. Either way, it would be time to move on.

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCrulesU View Post
    Any other LEO I know would have had him on the ground, manhandling him and arrested for PI (public intoxication) off the get go.
    Quote Originally Posted by NYCrulesU View Post
    I didn't say whole or all. But I am saying 75%, being fair.
    "any other" certainly implies all of or the rest LEO's as a whole except the Alaska trooper you saw on TV. Perhaps writing based on perception and opinion and presenting it as fact is why you have trouble making cases stick? I'm not trying to give you a hard time, just point out obvious flaws that might make life a little harder than it needs to be.

    Back on topic, yes, almost always cuff in the back. And any cop worth a darn knows how to cuff so the arms cannot be swung back around to the front unless the prisoner is some sort of double jointed freak of nature. (it happens-) As always, there are exceptions to the rule though, and sometimes people do get cuffed in the front.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Hotguns, I saw a show (coast guard i think) where they put a life jacket on the person and handcuff them also. How do you control the suspect then? Isn't there more of a risk of them fleeing or trying to take control of the boat?b

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    There is a legitimate way to cuff someone in front. Palms facing outward. The BG can't manipulate his hands nor can he raise his arms high enough to offer any resistance or be a threat. For you LEOs , try it and you'll see what I mean.

  9. #23
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    He pulled the car into what we called the Sally Port at the jail, closed the steel garage door behind him, got out of the car and locked his own gun in the provided lock box, then went to retrieve the prisoner from the car. He opened the back door and was facing the wrong end of a .44 magnum
    He didnt search him before he cuffed him? How does one miss a .44 ?


    Hotguns, I saw a show (coast guard i think) where they put a life jacket on the person and handcuff them also. How do you control the suspect then? Isn't there more of a risk of them fleeing or trying to take control of the boat?b
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    Nutrodoc, thats scary stuff. Makes one think twice about handcuffing in the front. (I'm guilty of it once in a while, if my comfort level is high enough) It's hard to believe that a .44 magnum was missed during a pat down. Thats a serious piece of firepower. Do you know if his thumb was re-attached? I hope he's ok.

    I'll cuff someone in the front under very limited circumstances (guy turns himself in to take care of a warrant, stuff like that. everyone gets searched top to bottom though) These posts are making me think twice about that. Being a "nice guy" can get you hurt sometimes. Just not worth the risk.

    Also, although a little off-topic, but still related... A buddy of mine pointed out a trick to cuff those with tiny wrists. Even all the way cinched down, some wrists are still tiny enough to slip out of cuffs. This trick is obviously only good with chain cuffs. It's a no-brainer once someone shows you, but i'll admit I never thought of it until someone showed me. (After a 90lb coke head girl slipped out of my cuffs and kicked my window out...too little, too late ) Just lock the cuffs to themselves, and THEN around the wrist. Just a few clicks and you'll have cuffs that are way smaller than they could be otherwise.


  11. #25
    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    I thought I saw Sandusky getting out of a police car with no cuffs on.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyAirdale View Post
    There is a legitimate way to cuff someone in front. Palms facing outward. The BG can't manipulate his hands nor can he raise his arms high enough to offer any resistance or be a threat. For you LEOs , try it and you'll see what I mean.
    I'll Bite on this one ^^^^^^ You break a arm or a wrist your going to have some LEAGAL trouble ; )
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  13. #27
    Ex Member Array NYCrulesU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    This thread is way, way off topic. It's a shame what NYC is talking about, I don't know where he works or why he is in L.E... Sounds like he is in the wrong department, wrong profession for the wrong reason. If you can't make a manufacting charge stick, something is seriously wrong. Either the court sucks ( really, all the judges?) or you suck as a cop and have troubl putting together solid cases. Either way, it would be time to move on.




    "any other" certainly implies all of or the rest LEO's as a whole except the Alaska trooper you saw on TV. Perhaps writing based on perception and opinion and presenting it as fact is why you have trouble making cases stick? I'm not trying to give you a hard time, just point out obvious flaws that might make life a little harder than it needs to be.


    Fyi, since clearly you haven't gotten the whole picture how how I am in a very small country setting or you just want to keep your blinders on, which is fine.

    I do my job. Period. Let's not even try going there. And yes "All the judges?". Yes, all ONE of him. It's a pretty good revenue generating racket they have going on here. Had I known what I was stepping into when I relocated to this specific area...I would have chose differently. We wanted quiet, small country life for our children and never expected the drama and crookedness of LE here. The deputies live on Topix making nasty remarks to people. The correction officers sleep with female inmates. A deputy was recently caught sleeping with a 16 yr old, suspended for two weeks. No charges. There was a murder a few months before I moved here. I won't get into all the details...but the officer first on scene and called it in was the victims wifes boyfriend on the side.

    So..before you question my ethics, ability and reasons why I am in LE....learn to listen and have some facts.

    I have no problem speaking truth's. I suspect this Dept has a rude awakening coming. ;)

    And for the record..when the SHTF, I know what side I'm. And quite happy about it.
    Last edited by NYCrulesU; December 24th, 2011 at 05:01 PM.
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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyAirdale View Post
    There is a legitimate way to cuff someone in front. Palms facing outward. The BG can't manipulate his hands nor can he raise his arms high enough to offer any resistance or be a threat. For you LEOs , try it and you'll see what I mean.
    May I please beg a picture of this technique? I'm just a knuckle-dragging, law-abiding civilian and I'm having trouble graphically imagining what you are talking about.

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcclarke View Post
    May I please beg a picture of this technique? I'm just a knuckle-dragging, law-abiding civilian and I'm having trouble graphically imagining what you are talking about.
    The only way you can do it is palms in NOT out, Then it not doing any good. I can't turn my palms out & up, Arms are too big ; )PS Try it
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  16. #30
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    Here is a picture of a big ole boy...he's 6' 4" and 350.

    Hands out front and turned...
    ]

    Now, here is another picture of him trying to twist and turn and get his hands to a normal postition. It just dosent work too good.



    Here is a picture with hands twisted up. Trying to manipulate them to a more comfortable position just doesnt work. The trick here is to make sure that the cuffs are on tight enough that they dont slip. Whoever is cuffed like this will give up trying because it hurts and eventually they'll realize its an exercise in futility.


    Thanks to my son, who graciously volunteered to be the guinea pig for the pictures. He's a smart kid...he first asked me if I had the handcuff key handy...
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