Is there a good solution to problems associated with "No Knock" warrants?

Is there a good solution to problems associated with "No Knock" warrants?

This is a discussion on Is there a good solution to problems associated with "No Knock" warrants? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Blair Shooting.m4v - YouTube I do not believe this officer was truly threatened, I believe he was defaulting to his training at a range which ...

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Thread: Is there a good solution to problems associated with "No Knock" warrants?

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    Is there a good solution to problems associated with "No Knock" warrants?

    Blair Shooting.m4v - YouTube

    I do not believe this officer was truly threatened, I believe he was defaulting to his training at a range which typically trains for speed, not proper target identification. I can understand the potential need for no knock warrants, but I think it needs to be more restricted and require greater proof that this type of warrant is required.

    Truth be told, I would probably be killed or end up in prison if a no knock warrant is ever served on my home (I don't foresee a need for that, but mistakes happen). Why? Because I believe in self defense and the tactics used in these types of warrants do not allow for an innocent person (or confused person) to disarm in time to avoid being killed by the police.

    What are your thoughts? Agree, Disagree? Do you see any solutions to the problems?

    Thanks,
    Clay


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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Is there a good solution to problems associated with "No Knock" warrants?
    They should only be used to save the life of a hostage.

    Michael

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    After watching the video a few times I was unable to tell what he had in his hands, only after reading the attached new report did I learn it was a golf club. He did have it over his head and not pointed like a firearm, that being the case I believe the officers were too quick on the trigger.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
    "Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."

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    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHTFGearLLC View Post
    Blair Shooting.m4v - YouTube

    I can understand the potential need for no knock warrants, but I think it needs to be more restricted and require greater proof that this type of warrant is required. What are your thoughts? Agree, Disagree? Do you see any solutions to the problems?
    I think anyone who performs one of these and is negligent and bungs it up should face the gravest of consequences, in other words, equivalent to the harm that they inflict on their innocent victims. I say this not to be provocative, but there are some things that I think are just plain wrong and if one is going to wield this sort of power they should be prepared to pay the price if they wield it improperly. These types of invasions are something that I associate with a totalitarian state, not the USA. There is just no room for error or negligence in these types of scenarios. I have a really hard time seeing where the benefit of capturing some criminal is worth more than the potential destruction caused by this type of action and I am reminded of one of the concepts that is sometimes touted as being one of the factors that sets the legal system in this nation apart from much of the rest of the world: that it be better for a guilty person to go free than for an innocent person to be punished.
    rammerjammer, FTG-05 and Ishmael like this.

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    Well, we've seen a general militarization of police departments around the country. Add to that an heightened willingness to roll out the SWAT team whenever the slightest suspicion that weapons or violence might be a factor.

    Then, add in the way they're handing out no-knock warrants for virtually any arrest where drugs are suspected, and you've got a recipe for accidents and tragedy. Here in my town we just saw the final outcome of a sad event where undercover officers drew on a pair of bail bondsmen (who were on scene to apprehend the same guy the cops were after). Both bondsmen shot, one killed, police cleared of all charges.

    So. What are you supposed to do when people are running at you in the dark, without identification, screaming and yelling and pointing weapons at you?
    claude clay likes this.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

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    Senior Member Array Okemo's Avatar
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    He appears to be holding a sword....pointed at the ceiling when he's shot.



    shooting.jpg
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    Get a much, much thicker door...
    "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Yeah, real simple solution: do not allow LEO to do them. They screw them up way to often. This just happened to an alderman:Alderman’s Home Raided In Annapolis « CBS Baltimore
    It is always the same excuse, oops, sorry wrong address. If I was awaken during one of these I would probably be shot. They could be yelling police all they want but if woken from a sound sleep, and I see guns at me, what do you think could happen? My neighbor is a LEO and we had this conversation before and she said you need to identify before you shoot. That is not easy in that 1 second with guns pointed at you to determine what the heck is going on.

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    Senior Member Array Okemo's Avatar
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    Oops, story says golf club. I should read before I post.
    And you know I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view. -- John Prine (A Good Time)

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    Yes, there is a solution. Eliminate no-knock warrants.
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    No-knock warrents are severly unconstitutional. I like the constitution. I dont like someone kicking in my door unanounced.
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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    How about make this an easier.
    Who thinks no-knock warrants are a GOOD idea!!!!!!

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    No-knock warrents are severly unconstitutional

    Please post the part that shows these type warrants are unconstitutional or any legal precedent that supports it?

    No knock warrants are given in circumstances that involve the safety of the officer or the destruction of evidence should entry not be gained immediately. Out of the hundreds of thousands of search warrants issued a very low percentage are no knocks. The judical officer makes the decision after a request from the LEO if the warrant should be no knock.

    An interesting point from the posts. Until the text was read some could not even identify what he had in his hands, but the officer has milliseconds to decide. Anyways this I think falls back to the training of the officer involved. The entire team slowed and looked at the body going by and never cleared, that I saw, the bathroom right in front of them there is obviously a lack of focus by the entire team. I do not know how big the house was but 6 officers down a hallway with a couple looking over their shoulders, one adjusting his chin strap again shows lack of training and focus to the mission at hand.

    No knocks do serve a purpose. I have completed dozens of them without injury to myself or the person I was after. Did they screw up? Who knows. The state says they did not and they have the video to watch. We will just have to sit back and see what civil claim if any is filed.

    I was unable to access the story if someone has a direct link I would like to read it.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    How do not care abut the legality of them. Time and time again people have been hurt and killed because of them. Even if the officer does no wrong, it has the potential to escalate a situation. The two reasons given by somebody were to protect evidence and the safety of the officer. I agree about the safety of the officer but is it worth the risk for somebody to get hurt/killed to protect evidence. How many times a WEEK do we see in the news of one of these no knock searches go bad. People doing home invasions are using the guise of being police to access a residence. If somebody goes into my house (and you have to understand the mind of somebody that is not doing anything wrong) and I know police shouldn't be looking for me and I see guns. What the heck do you think I am going to think. I don't have time to ask for better identification.
    They are dangerous as time and time again have proven.
    And by barging in like that, the officers put everybody at risk.
    noway2 and msgt/ret like this.

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Here is the link

    Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly | The Salt Lake Tribune

    It seems that the subject was coming after the police with a sword. Not a good Idea.

    That being said, I have to agree that if it happened in my home, I would be dead as well. Jumping out of bed while people are running thru your home with guns, would get sticky...
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

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