USMC Snipers May Be In Trouble - Page 2

USMC Snipers May Be In Trouble

This is a discussion on USMC Snipers May Be In Trouble within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; That is precisely why we must maintain the higher moral ground. This war, while still somewhat kinetic at times, is largely based in counter-insurgency. How ...

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  1. #16
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    That is precisely why we must maintain the higher moral ground. This war, while still somewhat kinetic at times, is largely based in counter-insurgency. How do we convince people we are the good guys, when we do this and put it on the internet? We need as many of the local nationals as possible to see us as the good guys, and videos like this do not help that case.
    You are thinking like a rational American thinks.

    We'll never have enough of the "locals" to see us as the good guys. We are on their turf killing their fathers,sons,brothers,sisters,cousins,aunts and uncles and their friends. They will not like us because not only are YOU as a soldier, the enemy, to them, you are an enemy to their way of life and they will never see us as good guys until we are all dead.

    Those people have been killing each other since the beggining of time. Two weeks after we are gone from there, they'll go right back to the lifestyle that they have had since it all began and you wont even be able to tell that we were ever there.

    When Americans understand that Muslims only want to kill everyone that is unlike them, then that will be the beggining of understanding.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  2. #17
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    ^^^^^^ Boom....truth.
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    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    You are thinking like a rational American thinks.

    We'll never have enough of the "locals" to see us as the good guys. We are on their turf killing their fathers,sons,brothers,sisters,cousins,aunts and uncles and their friends. They will not like us because not only are YOU as a soldier, the enemy, to them, you are an enemy to their way of life and they will never see us as good guys until we are all dead.

    Those people have been killing each other since the beggining of time. Two weeks after we are gone from there, they'll go right back to the lifestyle that they have had since it all began and you wont even be able to tell that we were ever there.

    When Americans understand that Muslims only want to kill everyone that is unlike them, then that will be the beggining of understanding.
    Actually, there was an article I linked on here a while back, in some Military/LE thread. The article was about an event that happened in a small village in Afghanistan, in Helmand Province, in my units AO from when I was there. Two Taliban members had ridden into the village on a motorcycle, and got in an argument with a village elder, and ended up killing the elder with an AK. At which point the rest of the villagers decided that was enough, and stoned both the Taliban fighters to death. That is an area which I wouldn't consider really friendly or secure when I was there in 2010, and by summer 2011, the people no longer fear the Taliban.

    That is why we do so much civil affairs work, and help their injured children. Because it shows an alternative to the lifestyle that they had under the Taliban. That is why it was so important for us to open up schools not just for the boys, but the girls.

    Most of them don't hate us, they just want to be left alone to do the best they can for their family, and like whomever can give their children a better, more successful life. But, that is just my opinion.


    EDIT: This thread: The Battle for Marjah Post #11 sums up a lot of my feelings about this stuff HotGuns. Granted, I have a vested interest, so my opinion is biased, I understand that.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    You are thinking like a rational American thinks.

    We'll never have enough of the "locals" to see us as the good guys. We are on their turf killing their fathers,sons,brothers,sisters,cousins,aunts and uncles and their friends. They will not like us because not only are YOU as a soldier, the enemy, to them, you are an enemy to their way of life and they will never see us as good guys until we are all dead.

    Those people have been killing each other since the beggining of time. Two weeks after we are gone from there, they'll go right back to the lifestyle that they have had since it all began and you wont even be able to tell that we were ever there.

    When Americans understand that Muslims only want to kill everyone that is unlike them, then that will be the beggining of understanding.
    Were the roles reversed I would hate the invaders the same way they hate us.

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  5. #20
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    Most of them don't hate us, they just want to be left alone to do the best they can for their family, and like whomever can give their children a better, more successful life. But, that is just my opinion.
    I honestly beleive that, but then thats the case for most of the people in the world.

    The real problem lies much deeper. If they are practicing Muslims, which most are, then they fundamentaly beleive that we can be of no good whatsoever and it is their duty to make all things like them.

    Nothing we can do will change them.


    That is why we do so much civil affairs work, and help their injured children
    We do that because it is the right thing to do.

    In the end its all gonna be about Christians and Muslims. And whether you are a practicing Christian or not dosent matter to them, because to them, if you arent Muslim, then you are'nt in the "right".
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    I honestly beleive that, but then thats the case for most of the people in the world.

    The real problem lies much deeper. If they are practicing Muslims, which most are, then they fundamentaly beleive that we can be of no good whatsoever and it is their duty to make all things like them.

    Nothing we can do will change them.

    We do that because it is the right thing to do.

    In the end its all gonna be about Christians and Muslims. And whether you are a practicing Christian or not dosent matter to them, because to them, if you arent Muslim, then you are'nt in the "right".
    Don't Christians see non-Christians in pretty much the same way? As a practicing non-Christian, it seems that way to me.

  7. #22
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    I've been in B&G combat many times and seen a lot of horrific things done to an enemy corpse while the adrenaline is still pumping in the heat of the moment when a soldier is covered with spray from close friends he's just lost.

    However, once it's all over and everyone has the chance to calm down and mentally refocus, there is no moral or reasonable excuse to dishonor and desecrate an enemy soldier who was fighting (and died) for something he/she believed in just as strongly as that which you believe in and are fighting for.

    By committing such a disgusting, disrespectful, and dishonorable act "after the fact", the only thing more stupid and terribly demeaning to oneself, his/her unit, their country, and the "noble cause" they purport to pursue is to photograph themselves during the commission of such an act - and the only other act of irresponsible stupidity that can top that is to publicize the pictures to show the whole world "proof" of your enemy's best negative propaganda.

  8. #23
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    Don't Christians see non-Christians in pretty much the same way? As a practicing non-Christian, it seems that way to me.
    Nope. I have no desire to kill you because you do not believe like I do.
    As a matter of fact, I'd take you to the range and let you shoot my stuff.

    What ever you choose to beleive is between you and the Creator.
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    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Don't Christians see non-Christians in pretty much the same way? As a practicing non-Christian, it seems that way to me.
    As a Christian I'm required to "love" you and to treat you well. I'm supposed to treat you so well that you want to become like me and serve Jesus. Am I to try and convert you? Yes, through kindness. If you never convert then you answer to God, not to me or any other Christian.

    The problem you run into is that we Christians are only people trying to do the right thing. People make mistakes. I have stepped on plenty of toes in my life and I'm sure I haven't always done a great job of representing Jesus to folks. I'll have to answer for those mistakes at a later time.

    Islam's goal is to convert you by any means and if that doesn't work then you are to be killed or enslaved. There is no live and let live with Islam.
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    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  10. #25
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    It was a wrong move by the Marines. I agree that horrible things have been done in every war and we have become to politically correct. They also have to be smarter. Everybody has a camera and internet access and if you do something wrong it will be out in the open for everyone to see.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    As a Christian I'm required to "love" you and to treat you well. I'm supposed to treat you so well that you want to become like me and serve Jesus. Am I to try and convert you? Yes, through kindness. If you never convert then you answer to God, not to me or any other Christian.

    The problem you run into is that we Christians are only people trying to do the right thing. People make mistakes. I have stepped on plenty of toes in my life and I'm sure I haven't always done a great job of representing Jesus to folks. I'll have to answer for those mistakes at a later time.

    Islam's goal is to convert you by any means and if that doesn't work then you are to be killed or enslaved. There is no live and let live with Islam.
    Tell it to the Conversos and Mission Indians.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Tell it to the Conversos and Mission Indians.
    I don't have to tell it to anyone. You'll notice in paragraph 2 of my post I pointed out the flaws. Humans being humans do stupid things/bad things. That doesn't change what Christianity is supposed to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    I have stepped on plenty of toes in my life and I'm sure I haven't always done a great job of representing Jesus to folks.
    As I pointed out above, I have made plenty of mistakes in my life. I'm quite sure I have given Christianity a black eye more than once.

    My point, however, was to illustrate to you what Christianity is SUPPOSED to be. We humans don't always do a very good job of doing it right.

    Besides friend you asked what I thought was a real question. I gave you a real answer. If you were being sarcastic then I'm sorry to have wasted your time.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  13. #28
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    Well, I agree America should take the high ground, however... If you have ever been in a military combat battle for your very life, and knowing the enemy trying to kill you is barbaric and murderous in the treatment of it's P.O.W.'s... It's hard to restrain human nature and Alpha Male feelings. One of those things you have to personally experience to understand the nature of the beast. JMHO.

    Would this be such a big deal if we were in a war for the very survival of our nation?

    God bless all our military men & women.
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  14. #29
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    They are now saying the individuals are from Camp Lejuene.

    Online video shows Marines urinating on corpses

    Camp Lejeune, N.C. — A video posted Tuesday on YouTube appears to show four Marines dressed in combat gear urinating on the bodies of three men.

    The person who uploaded the video under the name "semperfiLoneVoice" wrote in the video caption that the Marines were members of Scout Sniper Team 4, 3rd Battalion 2nd Marine Expeditionary Force out of Camp Lejeune and that the bodies were members of the Taliban in Afghanistan.

    Nothing in the 39-second video identifies the Marines as being based at Camp Lejeune.

    During the video, the Marines exposed themselves, and someone can be heard saying, "Have a great day, buddy," as the men urinate on the bodies.

    The Marine Corps is investigating the incident, spokeswoman Capt. Kendra Hardesty said.

    "While we have not yet verified the origin or authenticity of this video, the actions portrayed are not consistent with our core values and are not indicative of the character of the Marines in our Corps," Hardesty said in a statement.
    Online video shows Marines urinating on corpses :: WRAL.com
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    I don't have to tell it to anyone. You'll notice in paragraph 2 of my post I pointed out the flaws. Humans being humans do stupid things/bad things. That doesn't change what Christianity is supposed to be.

    As I pointed out above, I have made plenty of mistakes in my life. I'm quite sure I have given Christianity a black eye more than once.

    My point, however, was to illustrate to you what Christianity is SUPPOSED to be. We humans don't always do a very good job of doing it right.

    Besides friend you asked what I thought was a real question. I gave you a real answer. If you were being sarcastic then I'm sorry to have wasted your time.
    More of a rhetorical question, although my comments when discussing religion often do quickly go to the sarcastic. Many think theirs is the one of love and obedience to God, needing to be imposed upon others, if not blatantly, at least implicitly. Many are also under the mistaken impression that if they somehow describe and personify their belief system appealingly enough, it will attract those who believe otherwise. As an outsider looking in, and former insider looking around, I see little difference between religions which have long histories of proseltization and forced conversions as a basis in their make-up.

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