This is a discussion on USMC Snipers May Be In Trouble within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; A friendly reminder that if this turns into a discussion on religion it will be closed as our forum rules state. As to the Marines... ...
A friendly reminder that if this turns into a discussion on religion it will be closed as our forum rules state.
As to the Marines... they were dumb to pull a stunt like that, and grossly stupid to think they could post it and nothing would happen. Due to their stupidity they will no doubt become the "poster children" for proper behavior in this case, and will probably cost them in more ways than one.
EOD - Initial success or total failure
Many of us here are old enough to remember this guy. While wikipedia isn't always the most objective or accurate source, but this particular article seems pretty accurate. Read particularly about what the prize-winning photographer had to say about the photo he took, and the circumstances surrounding the event.
Nguyen Ngoc Loan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
SO WHAT!!!!!!!!!,did C.A.I.R,write the same letter on behalf of the victims at Fort Hood?,very unlikely!
I don't fault them at all. In the heat of battle we would all do some crazy things. Its easy to sit here and say "bad bad bad", but when your actually on the front lines, seeing your friends get there brains blown out and what not its easy to get "out of hand".
Asto the Marines... they were dumb to pull a stunt like that, and grossly stupid to think they could post it and nothing would happen. Due to their stupidity they will no doubt become the "poster children" for proper behavior in this case, and will probably cost them in more ways than one.
Sadly, it will also cause the deaths of US and other friendly troops. The bad guys will turn this one into a cause celebre. This video has gone viral. It will be used as a recruiting tool by al Queda, the Taliban and every other crazy group fighting US troops anywhere in the world.
No matter how anyone spins this..it's just wrong.
It's one thing to stand over your freshly killed enemy in the heat of battle and empty magazine after magazine into their corpse. To come by at some later time after the dust settles and desecrate their bodies is unacceptable and a little sick.
The mission over there is to win over the general population and give them the tools to fight the Taliban on their own so we can leave. Doing crap like this doesn't support the mission and in fact, it may become the inspiration for some local undecided fence sitters to switch sides which could result in the deaths of more good guys.
To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the crocodile, hoping he will eat you last - but eat you he will.
I am more disgusted with right now with anyone trying to rationalize what these marines did than that at the marines themselves. Respectfully, if you have never been in combat and seen "your friends brains blown out" of course comment on this subject but you do not have a clue. It is a still photo with no background. It does not look like it is in the heat of battle. It looks more posed than anything else. I can't comment further on that cause I wasn't there and neither were you.
Do terrible things happen, yes. They may be understandable but never excusable. For folks to rationalize and say that the enemy does worse is hogwash. It makes us not only look bad but as a nation we all lose our morality bit by bit every time we rationalize a sick depraved act like this. Most of the country couldn't even explain why we are in Afghanistan to begin with. Most don't know the difference between al queda and Taliban. Nor would they know what relationship they have with each other. I am disgusted by our leaders for keeping us there, I am disgusted by people that "haven't been there" even trying to say it was OK, and extremely disgusted by at least one active duty army soldier (I assume is an NCO by now) who is a forum member that made a stupid comment on it. If he makes a comment like that on a forum I can only imagine what he tells his soldiers and I am willing to bet he would the other way if he saw an atrocity. For those "that have been" there they have to live with their conscience on how they feel about it good or bad.
When we vote this election cycle think about this:only ONE major candidate wants us to leave immediately. I agree. It is tribal, has been and always will. Their will be no difference if we left today or 10 years from now.
As far as the Marines in question, the chain of command will take care of it but the damage they have done is irreparable.
Professional this, honor that, moral code this...
While all are admirable and necessary, you can not expect for young devil-dogs (or soldiers) to be able to flip that political correctness/poster boy switch on instantaneously. Leaving the FOB, or sitting in a forward OP you are EXPECTED to be in KILL MODE, ready to destroy with extreme malice, and eat any babies in your way...
NCO or not, after any engagement or even just returning to the rear there is a wind-down time that is different for every Marine. You can try to do your best to put your troops at ease but its not always possible... daddy can't always have eyes on his kids...
Now... that being said, these Marines are ROCKS... Go and keep it for your private collection, but, to post it is just friggin' numb nuts stupid, and they deserve any backlash because of their thick-headedness...
The problem is the photograph. I don't condone their behavior, but at that age, I was not above doing something like that. Young men make for ferocious warriors and you take the good with the bad.
In 1983 my ship was steaming along side an aggressive soviet war ship with their guns trained us in the Bering sea. Gestures were passed between sailors on deck, and my shipmate and I deemed it necessary to drop trouser and moon them. Fortunately there were no cameras.
'Clinging to my guns and religion
IMO, an attitude of I can do anything I want because it is war (and I think someone is the enemy) is the attitude that created the Mai Lai massacre. Whether you agree or not, American soldiers have always been expected to adhere to higher standards of conduct in all the ranks. Sure there are always going to be exceptions but that doesn't change the standard. Even if you agree we should be there or leave as long as we are there we should conduct ourselves by a higher standard than anyone else.
While I don't condone the behavior, or any of the knucklehead things that have come out b/c these young soldiers post stupid stuff online PUBLICLY, those "higher standards" are set by the mothers of America and the various service level headquarters for a number of reasons (recruiting, funding, public opinion etc).
You can't resonably expect for a fighting machine to automatically flip that switch. What you CAN and SHOULD expect is that the killing machine that is the us service man WILL release their aggressions/ stress in ways that may not make the rest of the county happy and that many would frown upon. They will undoubtedly get what's coming...
War is a dirty ugly business and it does something to the mind of people when they are constantly killing and being killed. I don't condemn these Marines, they are doing an ugly job that people rarely see, and then feel compelled to criticise when it offends their sensibilities. If you don't want men to act like this, don't put them in a situation where survival is paramount to everything else.
my 2 cents