USMC Snipers May Be In Trouble

This is a discussion on USMC Snipers May Be In Trouble within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; American soldiers have always been expected to adhere to higher standards of conduct in all the ranks. Sure there are always going to be exceptions ...

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  1. #46
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    American soldiers have always been expected to adhere to higher standards of conduct in all the ranks. Sure there are always going to be exceptions but that doesn't change the standard. Even if you agree we should be there or leave as long as we are there we should conduct ourselves by a higher standard than anyone else.
    What the standards are and what actually happens in war are sometimes different. Barbaric behavior among combat soldiers isn't new and isn't exclusive to current operations. Filming it and posting it on the internet for all the world to see is what is new. We shouldn't be surprised that bloody war can sometimes bring out the worst in young men. We can't condone it but we can surely understand it.

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  3. #47
    Member Array bolocanolo's Avatar
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    While I don't condone these Marines actions, do you suppose they have a defensive carry forum in Afghanistan deploring the actions of the Taliban, burning and decapitating, dragging the mutilated bodies of our men through the streets!? I'm tired of hearing the cliche' "we must take the high and moral ground" and "our men should know better" The high and moral ground will not teach these people anything. Civility is not in their vocabulary, they're never "going to like us". For all we know, these marines took this action because perhaps a few minutes before they went to their 72 virgins, they tried killing one of them. We're quick to judge (guilty) those we call our "heroes" and the one's "defending our freedom" and we thank them when we walk past them in Airports, and pay their meals if we see them in a restaurant. Our hypocricy runs the gamut. I'm sure our military will no doubt crucify these men, just as they've done in the past.
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  4. #48
    Distinguished Member Array Elk Hunter's Avatar
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    bad apples, not the character of the Corps

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolocanolo View Post
    While I don't condone these Marines actions, do you suppose they have a defensive carry forum in Afghanistan deploring the actions of the Taliban, burning and decapitating, dragging the mutilated bodies of our men through the streets!? I'm tired of hearing the cliche' "we must take the high and moral ground" and "our men should know better" The high and moral ground will not teach these people anything. Civility is not in their vocabulary, they're never "going to like us". For all we know, these marines took this action because perhaps a few minutes before they went to their 72 virgins, they tried killing one of them. We're quick to judge (guilty) those we call our "heroes" and the one's "defending our freedom" and we thank them when we walk past them in Airports, and pay their meals if we see them in a restaurant. Our hypocricy runs the gamut. I'm sure our military will no doubt crucify these men, just as they've done in the past.
    -Sorry if you are sick of hearing cliches. How about rules of land warfare.......is that more clear to you. And if it is easier for you to understand, it becomes a recruiting tool for them.
    -Last I heard we are not there to teach them anything
    -The military should punish these men...period! It has happened inn the past, will happen in the future...IT AIN"T right
    -No hit on the military, they go where they are told to go. But sir, nobody is defending our freedom. How has Afghanistan or Iraq made me any freer. Give me just one example. If you are equating safer with freedom I would disagree on that point also.
    -We invaded Afghanistan, for whatever reason somebody wants to pull out of their hat for the day.....no kidding they were probably shooting at the Marines. That is what war is about. You don't as a rule go defacing bodies. Maybe we should invade Grenada again so very few people shoot back.
    -Judging soldiers because of what they have to do at the behest of our government is wrong, judging them by their individual actions is not.

    Finally, the actions by these Marines is isolated. Just like all atrocities committed by the services. They do not reflect the values of the Corp or other branches of the military. I am starting to have my doubts about the american people though. You start by saying you don't condone their actions but your words after go on to justify/explain it.
    Because of who I am and how I was brought up I am morally repugnant at having to take human life. But in the course of war, just or not, it happens. To deface the dead is not who we are.
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  6. #50
    Senior Member Array WD54241's Avatar
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    A quick history lesson for some is needed. urinating on the dead is nothing! The Afghani women after a fight will run out into the field after dark and if any American is wounded or dead that was left behind they get butchered carved up into little pieces. The Tali ban will cut your head off with a knife and video tape it. Our civilian contractors will be disemboweled, burned and hung from a bridge for days. The mean o'l Americans those meanies piss on the dead. So what! I like the idea of an ear count!
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  7. #51
    Member Array bolocanolo's Avatar
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    Spot on WD54241

  8. #52
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WD54241 View Post
    A quick history lesson for some is needed. urinating on the dead is nothing! The Afghani women after a fight will run out into the field after dark and if any American is wounded or dead that was left behind they get butchered carved up into little pieces. The Tali ban will cut your head off with a knife and video tape it. Our civilian contractors will be disemboweled, burned and hung from a bridge for days. The mean o'l Americans those meanies piss on the dead. So what! I like the idea of an ear count!
    When are you talking about the Taliban and when are you talking about al queda. There is a difference. The civilian contracters you are talking about happened in Iraq AFTER Bush said Mission Accomplished. Brush up on your history.

  9. #53
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolocanolo View Post
    Spot on WD54241
    You too. Brush up on your history. I will answer any question ya'll have. I aske a question, give me the courtesy of an answeer: How is Iraq and Afghanistan defending our freedom???? Just telll me.
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  10. #54
    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
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    What Suntzu said.

    Many seem not to care that the actions of those Marines will result in the deaths of US and NATO troops; those deaths may not be limited to Afghanistan. This thing has gone viral: It's all over the web. Crazy terrorist organizations and their supporters are using that video as a recruiting tool.

    Uprooted Palestinians: Marine snipers urinate on the people they killed


    http://arabnews.com/world/article562480.ece


    http://www.aljazeera.com/

  11. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig 210 View Post
    What Suntzu said.

    Many seem not to care that the actions of those Marines will result in the deaths of US and NATO troops; those deaths may not be limited to Afghanistan. This thing has gone viral: It's all over the web. Crazy terrorist organizations and their supporters are using that video as a recruiting tool.

    Uprooted Palestinians: Marine snipers urinate on the people they killed


    Coalition condemns video of urination on corpses - Arab News


    AJE - Al Jazeera English
    I wonder how they garnered all the anti-American enthusiasm which kept fighters standing in line to join against our troops PRIOR to the posting of this video???
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  12. #56
    Senior Member Array Bullet1234's Avatar
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    They should be in trouble,,,,, and whatever law
    they violated ,,,, they should PAY FOR THEIR
    ACTIONS. No excuse for this.
    A few elitists shouldn't rule the many.
    Better to have a 380 in your pocket than a 45 at HOME.
    When seconds count, police are minutes away.

  13. #57
    Ex Member Array NYCrulesU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattmann View Post
    I don't fault them at all. In the heat of battle we would all do some crazy things. Its easy to sit here and say "bad bad bad", but when your actually on the front lines, seeing your friends get there brains blown out and what not its easy to get "out of hand".
    +1.

    I'll simply say this...I'm a Christian male, husband and father of two. I work, go to church and say hi to my neighbors when I see them. I pass as "Joe Normal". That said..I don't have enough life to "make up" for the sins/wrong doings of my past. It's one reason why I pray for forgiveness and try to live as decent as possible for however many days I have left.

    You all are offended by a couple of soldiers urinates of a couple of insurgents? Really? Then I could only imagine who would vomit first if I ever went into detail of some of the things I've seen and done. War is war. It isn't pretty, seldom ethical and never by the book. Anyone that thinks or tries to tell you otherwise is either a pacifist, never experienced it first hand or living in a fantisized utopian sense of reality.

    I have zero problem with the actions of these Marines. Then again, I don't try to kid myself on how PC we should all pretend to be when trying to impress others on an internet forum.
    Last edited by rstickle; January 12th, 2012 at 07:26 PM. Reason: Language

  14. #58
    Member Array bolocanolo's Avatar
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    NYCrulesU Carry on Sir!

  15. #59
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYCrulesU View Post
    +1.

    I'll simply say this...I'm a Christian male, husband and father of two. I work, go to church and say hi to my neighbors when I see them. I pass as "Joe Normal". That said..I don't have enough life to "make up" for the sins/wrong doings of my past. It's one reason why I pray for forgiveness and try to live as decent as possible for however many days I have left.

    You all are offended by a couple of soldiers ******* of a couple of insurgents? Really? Then I could only imagine who would vomit first if I ever went into detail of some of the things I've seen and done. War is war. It isn't pretty, seldom ethical and never by the book. Anyone that thinks or tries to tell you otherwise is either a pacifist, never experienced it first hand or living in a fantisized utopian sense of reality.

    I have zero problem with the actions of these Marines. Then again, I don't try to kid myself on how PC we should all pretend to be when trying to impress others on an internet forum.
    You know me, I am by far Politicaly Correct. I ask you and alll the others that do not have a problem with this. Is it OK for the enemy to do it to us? And don't say they did it first and they do it worst. We kinda like invaded their country. And stayed after Al Queda camps were destroyed. That is a playground argument you bring too your parents. You said offended by "over a couple of insurgents." What makes it wrong? 1000. It is wrong or not wrong. We are only talking about these Marines. There have been other atrocites committed by US military.If it is not wrong and acceptable to the Americans then it is perfectly OK for the enemy. We are a standing professional military. They are not. Are values on human life are different than theirs. Unless you are saying they are the same. Which it appears you are. At least you respond to posts unlike somebody that starts with a bo and ends in olo. He won't even address my post and hangs his coatails to others. Even when they are wrong (not talking about you , yours is an opinion). He cheered on a post that wasn't even factual....'nough said about that.
    Are all of you willing to tell your kids it is OK to do this to a dead body. If you can not tell your kids it right..then it is not right. I never said it was not understandable. Big difference there.
    I am going to take a swag at this that only about 10 percent have ever been close to being in a situation like this so therefore they are basing their ideas off of Full Metal Jacket. I admit that is a total guess. And frankly I don't care. If somebody's opinion is stuff happens in battle fine. It does. But if I hear one more person saying they are defending our freedom I am going to puke. I wasn't defending anybody's freedom over there, then or now.
    I am disgusted at how how country has become. We talk about how kids are screwed up these days and they aren't like we are. Well, I can see how they are now.
    I have hardly heard anything about the root of the problem: about us just getting out of there. We would be doing the same thing to an invader and you all know it. Why not, we do it there. We have no moral high ground on this. And that gentleman is only MY opinion. I am not PC, I speak my mind and I don't live my life with blinders on. Starting after 9/11 we have turned into a military culture. That is all our kids know now. And now if all of you go home tonight and tell your kids that urinating on a dead body is acceptable, then, we go down another notch on the morality chart as Americans. If you do not, you are a hypocrit.
    rstickle likes this.

  16. #60
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolocanolo View Post
    NYCrulesU Carry on Sir!
    Will you make up your mind. You posted you do not condone the actions of the Marines and now you cheer on NYCrueles who says he has no problem with it. I respect his opinion...he has one. Now I need to go shovel 10 inches of snow.

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