USMC Snipers May Be In Trouble

This is a discussion on USMC Snipers May Be In Trouble within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I personally do not care if our Marines take a porkchop & bacon dump on dead insurgents. But, we live in a new world where ...

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  1. #61
    Ex Member Array GlockZombie's Avatar
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    I personally do not care if our Marines take a porkchop & bacon dump on dead insurgents. But, we live in a new world where information bounces all across the globe in a matter of seconds.

    You HAVE to keep this in mind now. They didn't and they're gonna pay big time.
    l1a1 likes this.

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  3. #62
    Distinguished Member Array DontTreadOnI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolocanolo View Post
    While I don't condone these Marines actions, do you suppose they have a defensive carry forum in Afghanistan deploring the actions of the Taliban, burning and decapitating, dragging the mutilated bodies of our men through the streets!? I'm tired of hearing the cliche' "we must take the high and moral ground" and "our men should know better" The high and moral ground will not teach these people anything. Civility is not in their vocabulary, they're never "going to like us". For all we know, these marines took this action because perhaps a few minutes before they went to their 72 virgins, they tried killing one of them. We're quick to judge (guilty) those we call our "heroes" and the one's "defending our freedom" and we thank them when we walk past them in Airports, and pay their meals if we see them in a restaurant. Our hypocricy runs the gamut. I'm sure our military will no doubt crucify these men, just as they've done in the past.
    I'm not against our current involvement in the Middle East, but this is a war that we have taken to them. Just because they do things does not mean we should lower our standards and practices to their level.
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  4. #63
    Senior Member Array dV8r's Avatar
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    Not that I believe this to be "right", but the only one(s) who should be punished is the one who took the video and the one(s) who published it. If you have never been in combat you may not understand.
    NYCrulesU, suntzu and Guest1 like this.
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  5. #64
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    This is COMPLETELY unacceptable, why did they let this photographer anywhere near this event?
    War is hell!

    I always find it amazing that 'bleeding hearts' want to make a big deal out of such an episode, but when the enemy takes our troops and hangs them on bridges to burn their bodies or cuts their heads off while still alive...oh, well that's just war?

    While I do understand the higher standards we should uphold, I do not see much of a story here...call me cold-hearted, I guess.

    Our military can take care of this internally...story over!
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  6. #65
    Member Array lordofwyr's Avatar
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    The only issue I have here is that when they swore their oath, they agreed to live by the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and further, Marines pride themselves in keeping themselves held to a higher standard and honor. I have two sons in the Marines and one in the Navy.

    urinating on a dead body would basically be desecrating the body, perhaps not by real physical damage, but it is still an act that we, hopefully living under a higher set of moral values, should not stoop to committing.

    Our enemies often have no problem committing atrocities. We, as a people, should not allow ourselves to be dragged down to their level.

    However, war has a way of bringing out the worst in any person, especially when you see day in and day out what evils are actually out there in the world.

    I do not worry that this will make the Taliban or Al Queda hate us any more than they already do. We are infidels in their eyes and deserve whatever they do to us.

    What I will say is that I don't ever seem to hear any of the leaders of Pakistan, Afganistan and all of the Arabian/Muslim world coming out in the headlines decrying every last barbaric act committed against non-muslims in the name of Islam and demanding they all be brought to justice for their crimes. Makes one go, "Hmmmmmmmm....."

    Oh, and as to atrocities, check the Old testament: Then Saul said, ‘Thus shall you say to David, “The king desires no marriage present except a hundred foreskins of the Philistines, that he may be avenged on the king’s enemies”‘. [1 Samuel 18:20-25 (NRSV)] I doubt that they were taken from Philistines after a Brit milah..... O_o
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  7. #66
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    We should have just killed them all, bred their woman, and declared it the 51st and 52nd states. Built a Protestant and Catholic church and opened up a Starbucks and McDonalds.

    Then asked who wants to be the next country to harm one hair on one Americans head, cause your next.
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  8. #67
    Ex Member Array NYCrulesU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    You know me, I am by far Politicaly Correct. I ask you and alll the others that do not have a problem with this. Is it OK for the enemy to do it to us? And don't say they did it first and they do it worst. We kinda like invaded their country. And stayed after Al Queda camps were destroyed. That is a playground argument you bring too your parents. You said offended by "over a couple of insurgents." What makes it wrong? 1000. It is wrong or not wrong. We are only talking about these Marines. There have been other atrocites committed by US military.If it is not wrong and acceptable to the Americans then it is perfectly OK for the enemy. We are a standing professional military. They are not. Are values on human life are different than theirs. Unless you are saying they are the same. Which it appears you are. At least you respond to posts unlike somebody that starts with a bo and ends in olo. He won't even address my post and hangs his coatails to others. Even when they are wrong (not talking about you , yours is an opinion). He cheered on a post that wasn't even factual....'nough said about that.
    Are all of you willing to tell your kids it is OK to do this to a dead body. If you can not tell your kids it right..then it is not right. I never said it was not understandable. Big difference there.
    I am going to take a swag at this that only about 10 percent have ever been close to being in a situation like this so therefore they are basing their ideas off of Full Metal Jacket. I admit that is a total guess. And frankly I don't care. If somebody's opinion is stuff happens in battle fine. It does. But if I hear one more person saying they are defending our freedom I am going to puke. I wasn't defending anybody's freedom over there, then or now.
    I am disgusted at how how country has become. We talk about how kids are screwed up these days and they aren't like we are. Well, I can see how they are now.
    I have hardly heard anything about the root of the problem: about us just getting out of there. We would be doing the same thing to an invader and you all know it. Why not, we do it there. We have no moral high ground on this. And that gentleman is only MY opinion. I am not PC, I speak my mind and I don't live my life with blinders on. Starting after 9/11 we have turned into a military culture. That is all our kids know now. And now if all of you go home tonight and tell your kids that urinating on a dead body is acceptable, then, we go down another notch on the morality chart as Americans. If you do not, you are a hypocrit.

    I must be in the minority, and that's ok. Just to address what I personally teach my children...

    While I teach my children about love, respect, discipline...and show them by example....I also teach them with equal resolution the cold hard facts of life. Life is tough, people are mean. You have to be even more mean (at certain times) to survive and to come out on top.

    I have two daughters. If I accomplish my goal...neither will ever be a victim.

    I am a combat vet, LEO, 2nd degree black belt in Aikido. As I said before, while I may pass for "Joe Normal"...I know how harsh this world is and what it takes to survive and what it will take to survive the coming decades.

    Both of my daughters will be black belts by 9. Both will be proficiently trained in handguns and rifles by 13. I guess not many others would teach their 4 year old the "alternate" use for a #2 pencil if a stranger approaches her when mommy & daddy aren't around. When she gets to grade school and starts using pens I will teach her the effectiveness of a Bic to the jugular.

    So in short...would I teach my children it is ok to piss on the enemy in war? Yes. There is no room for weakness in this world. It takes a balance of compassion and cruelty to survive.

  9. #68
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    This is COMPLETELY unacceptable, why did they let this photographer anywhere near this event?
    War is hell!

    I always find it amazing that 'bleeding hearts' want to make a big deal out of such an episode, but when the enemy takes our troops and hangs them on bridges to burn their bodies or cuts their heads off while still alive...oh, well that's just war?

    While I do understand the higher standards we should uphold, I do not see much of a story here...call me cold-hearted, I guess.

    Our military can take care of this internally...story over!
    I gave a like because at least I think I know where you are coming from. But this is where I guess I am a stickler for facts because it does make a difference in different situations. The contractors that were burned and hung from a bridge was done Sunni insurgents. We said we went to war against Saddam to liberate the Iraqi people. We made enemies of the Iraqi people and allowed Iranian and Al Queda influence into the country which contributed to that incident and others. (it all started as a low key religous civil war brought by us.) Afghanistan is totally different. We went into Afghanistan with the intent to overthrow the Taliban government. The Taliban are fighting back to take over the country.) Again, we made enemy's out of them. Just stating facts, not supporting any of this.

  10. #69
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    We should have just killed them all, bred their woman, and declared it the 51st and 52nd states. Built a Protestant and Catholic church and opened up a Starbucks and McDonalds.

    Then asked who wants to be the next country to harm one hair on one Americans head, cause your next.
    I really hope you are kidding. Iraq never harmed an American first before either Desert Storm, negates that. The Taliban did allow Al Queda to use Afghanistan as a bas of operations. It is not the haven it once was and the Taliban are not a threat to the US. So we should have been out of there a long time ago. And by your rational about retaliation, Sudan should attack us (we launched a Tomahawk missile against them saying they precursors for WMD's which they did not), Pananma (so we invade countries to arrest people), Libya bombing (supposed to be in retaliation for Berlin Disco terrorist bombing, later found out Libya had nothing to do with it), I won't list every Balkan state, that would take all day, Somalia, (when did they harm an American for us to be there). We seem as a nation to be upset at our enemies when we were the aggressor.
    We don't have to ask who wants to be next...it appears we pick them by lot.
    Those are cold hard facts, not from a left wing fruit cake rag of a magazine.
    You ask who is next...what about Iran. Sure.

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattmann View Post
    I don't fault them at all. In the heat of battle we would all do some crazy things. Its easy to sit here and say "bad bad bad", but when your actually on the front lines, seeing your friends get there brains blown out and what not its easy to get "out of hand".
    Well I was a Marine infantryman, I did a tour in Iraq, and a tour in Afghanistan. I lost friends overseas. I was in multiple firefights. I never felt the urge to urinate on any enemy war dead. Neither did anyone else in my unit.

    Bottom line is that the act violated orders, which are made clear to everyone upon arrival in country. Any enemy dead are to be treated with respect. Marine infantryman are expected to be professional warriors (the sniper rifle makes it clear these are grunts), they were not acting as professionals IMO.

    Anyone who thinks this is okay should go read about what a strategic corporal is.
    Sig 210, suntzu, Tally XD and 2 others like this.
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  12. #71
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    All of them have had the appropriate briefings. They knew the propraganda risks of this. They should have known better? And on top of it all a photographer to document this, good grief?
    Hope it does not cause another beheading from these animals.
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  13. #72
    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A_666_K9 View Post
    Professional this, honor that, moral code this...

    While all are admirable and necessary, you can not expect for young devil-dogs (or soldiers) to be able to flip that political correctness/poster boy switch on instantaneously. Leaving the FOB, or sitting in a forward OP you are EXPECTED to be in KILL MODE, ready to destroy with extreme malice, and eat any babies in your way...
    These Marines were not in the heat of battle when they did this act.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elk Hunter View Post
    bad apples, not the character of the Corps
    That is spoken like a Marine that I have always pictured.

    Quote Originally Posted by WD54241 View Post
    A quick history lesson for some is needed. urinating on the dead is nothing! The Afghani women after a fight will run out into the field after dark and if any American is wounded or dead that was left behind they get butchered carved up into little pieces. The Tali ban will cut your head off with a knife and video tape it. Our civilian contractors will be disemboweled, burned and hung from a bridge for days. The mean o'l Americans those meanies piss on the dead. So what! I like the idea of an ear count!
    We are American soldiers/Marines, not middle eastern animals.

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCrulesU View Post
    I must be in the minority, and that's ok. Just to address what I personally teach my children...


    So in short...would I teach my children it is ok to piss on the enemy in war? Yes. There is no room for weakness in this world. It takes a balance of compassion and cruelty to survive.
    Unrinating on dead enemy combatants have nothing to do with survival. They were already dead. They posed no threat. They were killed, dead, laying on the ground. They should have simply been mostly ignored until disposed of.
    Last edited by HotGuns; January 12th, 2012 at 10:27 PM. Reason: langauge workaround
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  14. #73
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    Those Marines picked a very bad time for their stunt and video. The US is backing a power sharing deal between Karzai and the Taliban: It's related to the withdrawl from Afghanistan strategy. Recently Biben said the Taliban is not the enemy: Duh.

    Pentagon condemns Marines

    Defense Secretary Leon Panetta on Thursday harshly condemned alleged behavior in a video that appears to show U.S. Marines urinating on the corpses of Taliban fighters. The Pentagon chief said he'd ordered a full investigation into the alleged incident, which comes amid sensitive diplomatic initiatives to try to advance reconciliation talks with the Taliban.

  15. #74
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    Well I sure dont have a problem with a sniper team showing thier contempt and disrespect for the enemy..They can do what ever they want with them...Hope the enemy fears them...Imagine the enemy these juys missed grousing about thier mates getting urinated on....really...What if the reality is that the spin-up over their "outrageous" act gets these guys a hot shower and messhall food ??..and they are ok with that??..what if they are really good at what they do...really ...sniper teams turn the enemy into meat and every one (lots and lots of politicans at least) is SO outraged about the team urinated on them...nothing has been said about the grief those urinated bodys represent.....thats just crazy...what if that sniper team is doing what is expected by the locals...because they hated and dispised by everyone breathing god's good air....if I was there I'd been sure those men got well hydrated, and didnt lack for anything I could provide...and the cleanest spot in that vid is the deadmans chest
    Last edited by HotGuns; January 12th, 2012 at 10:26 PM. Reason: language workaround

  16. #75
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    Back in the day when you could actually tell a man from a woman and not have to argue about, we wouldnt have wasted time taking a whiz on them, it would just dry off eventually.

    We would have just cut their heads off and put them on a stick. We didnt care if the weenies in this world got offended or not. They werent the ones out there doing the shooting, so their opinions meant nothing.
    nlghthawk and CaptSmith like this.

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