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Pardon me?Quote:
Originally Posted by AZJD1968
You sir, are in violation of several laws; at the Federal level (and probably at the state level as well) I guarantee it. You might as well turn yourself in... and suffer the consequences.
Get off your high horse. Man needs help, asks for it, DESERVES it.
And furthermore He:
Solemnly swore (or affirmed) that he will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that he would bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that he would obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over him, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help him God.
And in so doing, offered to cash a check you couldn't (unless you were yourself in the military) even write... And did so so that you would be able to practice your beloved kenpo, and spew your tripe in a public forum such as this.
Anyone who volunteers to take a bullet for my freedoms has earned my undying respect. And, if you have, even you deserve it... but frankly, I don't think you have the mettle to have been in the service.
oakchas, this post is to you.
What you don't know, but instead prefer to rely on speculation, is this...
I could not be in the service because it was me, not this country, who was taking care of my father who was a Vietnam War Vet, thrown away by the country he defended.
My father needed constant care. I was called home, from The University of Utah, at the age of 17 yrs old, there on a baseball scholarship that made my father exceptionally proud, because my father could not deal with raising my young brother. My father had become an alcohol addicted man who was being drowned by his flashbacks and depression.
My father WAS that guy, sir, who called the police because he wanted to kill himself. My father was the vet thrown away by his country and shamed by his countrymen who picketed against him and his friends and the things he saw and lived through.
I KNOW that guy , by way of my own dad, because I recognize him in my own father , who in the end, drank himself to death because he could NOT get the help he needed from the government that he defended, but didn't defend him
When you are on the internet, spewing names and assuming your assumption, you have NO real idea about whom you are speaking nor what their life experience is.
There were PLENTY if times when my father called the police while commiting an ilegal act and I explained to him every time that doing so with disregard to the consequences could and would get him a result that he wasn't barganing for.
How far do you let that go out of respect for a persons service? Everything I did for my father I did out of respect for him, including giving up my scholarship to become his fulltime caregiver at the age of 17.
You want to call what I write, tripe, what I call you is ignorant. Ignorant in your opinions of what I know. Ignorant in your judgment of me and wrong on all accounts.
As you have yet to say anything different, I can only assume that I am a better judge of this man's circumstances than you will ever be.
I do hope that the judge shows leiniency on this man and gets him the help he needs. But I do not agree that because he is a disabled vet in need of help ,that he gets a pass to commit a crime just as I do not believe it gave my father a pass to commit crimes.
Latest update one week after the OP:
Quote:
One possibility for Duvall would be enrollment in the Veterans Treatment Court, a diversion program in which participants can avoid a criminal conviction through close supervision and counseling.
A referral to the program requires approval by prosecutors and the judge. If that were not to happen, the case would move forward with Duvall facing a felony conviction and up to 40 years in prison.
I'm sure that we have the relevant facts. What we need is understanding. Maybe it's time to read Grossman's, On Killing for one facet of the cost of war or to watch, A Few Good Men to glimpse the discrepancy between the laws of war and the laws of the peacekeepers who send us to war.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Rogers
Remember, it's not illegal to commit suicide - just illegal to get caught in the process. This is suppossed to help those who are in trouble. Besides, are you willing to trust the public safety to one who publicly threatens his own life? OTOH, as the editorial says, "mental illness is not a crime[, and] seeking help is the path to being safe."Quote:
Originally Posted by AZJD1968
"In a motion to dismiss the charges, federal public defender Randy Cargill called the decision to prosecute Duvall “dishonorable.” Can Duvall's public defender rule out that he threatened the public safety or whatever is necessary to get Duvall into the Treatment Court even if its "close supervision" is something that works for someone like Duvall? Can anyone put a value on Duvall's sacrifice in the University of South Vietnam - versus the legal scholarship and higher education to which he is now subject? Seems like our hero is from another time and place, doesn't it?
The crime he is faced with here is the posession of an illegal firearm, not suicide. I believe that the price of his service should be AT LEAST, the help that he seeks, yet also he must understand that he still has to live by the law of the land that he defended, otherwise his service was for nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pistology
I will say that if the judge drops the charges then i'm glad for him and ,again, get the man the help he needs. I hope that he has already gotten it while we have been so good as to set here in our comfortable homes, in front of our computers, wallowing in our opinions.
This may not be very popular but it's been bothering me for some time so here goes......feel free to torch me later.
Not every veteran deserves a free pass when they get in trouble. Not every veteran suffers from PTSD.
I served my country in the USAF during the Vietnam war and never left my base in Tucson Arizona. I wasn't in a fox hole, never got shot at, and spent much of my "career" chasing coyotes off runways. Can I play the PTSD vet card if I were to do something dumb now?
My daughter, also a Gulf War vet, spent her career loading C-17s in Italy. Could she use that card as well?
I am very proud of the fact that I served my country during a time of war but I would never, ever, put myself in the same league with the guys that were running around the jungle getting shot at. I tried to find a little more info on the guy in this story and did come across an article that said he served in the Navy during the Gulf war. I'm wondering if his "war" experience was sort of like mine or my daughters.
If I'm wrong and this guy does turn out to be bonafide front line battle scarred vet than I apologize.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, be careful about assuming that because a guy was a vet, he was emotionally changed by his experience.:icon_neutral:
In my opinion, with the (lack of) information given here, there is no torching necessary. Having had the experience of this first hand..... I also believe its a valid question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotorblade
Very good point Rotorblade. Unfortunately PTSD is the new catch phrase defense, just like Spousal abuse and temporary insanity used to be. In todays world, if you saw your pet dog hit by a car when you were 6 years old, 40 years later they will claim your actions were a result of PTSD over seeing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotorblade
While I'll agree it's unlikely that all vets suffer from some sort of PTSD or other "battle shock" injury or psych problems... my point is this... Jailing the man for being in posession of a weapon designed stirctly for self inflicted death will not get him the help he needs... and probably only increase his misery.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotorblade
Further, whether you loaded cargo, chased coyotes, or pushed a pencil in your primary service duties; you still swore an oath to defend this country and its constitution from enemies foreign and domestic. As far as I'm concerned you are owed a debt by those of us who did not or could not serve.
As a result of your oath, we could count on you, in our times of trouble, to help protect us and keep us from harm... We should do the same for you.
I don't like "passes" on violation of law either... but the fact of the matter is that we are all guilty of violating one law or another even at this moment. There are 27 feet of shelf space consumed with federal law and regulation, I can guarantee with near 100% certainty that if you are not violating one of them, you are in violation of code, or of state law, or of some obscure municipal or county code... Even if un-enforced, the law is on the books and has not been rescinded.
This man's crime was to have a weapon, crudely made in desperation and despair, to take his own life with. Not to rob a bank, break out of jail, kill another. Sentencing him to jail time will only mean more manpower for a suicide watch, increase his despair, and not work on the cause of the problem... And because he was willing to cash a check I could not even write... I owe him that, as do we all.
Very good LTE in the Roanoke Times:
Pick of the day: Don't prosecute vet for seeking help - Roanoke.com
:congrats:, IMHOQuote:
Pick of the day: Don't prosecute vet for seeking help
SNIP
Put empathy before a lynch-mob mentality and do what is right. Treat Duvall like a human being and a mentally ill person in need. To severely punish a person who has the capacity to recover and lead a quality life would be the biggest waste of all.
CHRISTOPHER COX
NAMI Veteran Connection (Peer to Peer) Coordinator, Hampton Virginia Peer Counselor, Hampton-Newport News Community Services Board
HAMPTON
Letters: Veteran was brave in seeking help - Roanoke.com
Quote:
SNIP
The work of the U.S. attorney's office distracts from that good work and it is unfortunate that questionable legal proceedings could taint this valuable service.
With so many combat veterans returning to our communities, these services should be protected and promoted.
Turning Sean Duvall's singular act of courage into criminal charges is horrifying to the entire prevention community.
Such criminal proceedings are archaic and jeopardize the hard work of stakeholders statewide.
We lost 982 Virginians in 2010 to suicide.
SNIP
Without the lifesaving efforts of the Veterans Crisis Line and other hotlines, we would lose many others.
SNIP
CHRISTY LETSOM
Chairwoman, Virginia Suicide Prevention Coalition
NORFOLK
Deal lets troubled veteran avoid trial - Roanoke.com
Quote:
Sean Duvall, who was charged after calling a help line, will be allowed to enroll in Veterans Treatment Court.
By Laurence Hammack
981-3239
SNIP
An agreement has been reached that could end the prosecution of Sean Duvall, a depressed and suicidal veteran whose call for help was answered with a federal indictment.
Duvall, who was charged with possessing a homemade gun on the Virginia Tech campus after calling a confidential help line the night he nearly killed himself, will be allowed to enroll in a treatment program for veterans.
The agreement, detailed Monday in federal court in Roanoke, comes after advocates for veterans and the mentally ill decried the decision by prosecutors to charge a man who reached out for help.
At the request of attorneys on both sides, U.S. District Court Judge Samuel Wilson granted a motion to delay the case for six months, giving Duvall the opportunity to enroll in Veterans Treatment Court.
If Duvall successfully completes the program, which offers close supervision to veterans struggling with substance abuse or mental illness, the charges against him will be dismissed.
SNIP
:congrats:
He gets a chance to turn it around... If he fails to do so... he will face the consequences. That really sounds like a win/win for now... But this isn't a "three strikes" deal. If he was sincere in his desire for help, he'll get it, and has a chance to begin recovery... If he is insincere... no free pass...
this works for me, I hope it works for him.
OK. I believe that cooler heads prevailed and this is a fair compromise, good for him and I hope he gets what he needs. :ok: