What if drugs went away?

This is a discussion on What if drugs went away? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by noway2 Hopyard, you raised an interesting twist to this thread. The short of it is that I agree with your post. Medical ...

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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    Hopyard, you raised an interesting twist to this thread. The short of it is that I agree with your post. Medical care is another one of those areas where collectively as a nation we spend approximately double per capita compared to the rest of the developed world and we're are not getting the results were paying for. Frequently, I hear the argument that the best care in the world is available here. Of that, I have no doubt, but it is not available to the average person. Somebody is making a fortune off the system, yet everyone claims that they aren't making any money. Doctors should, as you put it, make a good living and I would clarify that by saying good, not extravagant. The entire medical system in this country is in need of a cold boot reset, wipe, reformat, and re-install.

    I rarely go to a doctor and I need to be pretty sick before I do. The last time i went, I was pretty sure I had the swine flu (that year it was breaking out in the US) as I had about 4 close co-workers all tested and diagnosed with it. When I started getting sick, I went to the Dr with the intent to get checked for it and if I had it get some of the medicine to help cut it short (my coworkers who got it reported feeling pretty well within 24 hours). The stupid overpaid pedigree refused to even check me for it because I didn't seem, sick enough. they gave me a prescription for some "strong cold medicine" that makes you sleep for about 4-6 hours. Days later I continued to get sicker and got to the point where I had a moderate fever and was starting to have difficulty breathing and wheezing. Of course this was over a holiday weekend, where the Dr office would have been closed and I refused to go to the hospital. Finally, I took some left over antibiotics for a dental prescription (I had a 8-10 days supply). Within less than 24 hours of starting those, the fever was all but gone as was the wheezing and I could breath easy again. Oddly enough, respiratory problems and pneumonia are a complication of the swine flu that the idiot wouldn't test me for. I mention this story because antibiotics are one of those "controlled" substances that should probably be in everyone's SHTF bag.

    The attitude in this nation towards pain pills is similarly disgusting. It used to be, and I assume it still is, legal to buy Tylenol with codeine OTC in Canada. It isn't terribly strong stuff, but it is more powerful than Advil or Tylenol alone. Codeine is also one drug that will usually stop a migraine cold. Here in the wonderful USA if a Dr prescribes it, it gets noted on their record and if they have to answer for it if they prescribe it too much. Setting aside the fact that most narcotic pain killers are safer and have fewer side effects than the stuff that you can get OTC, your typical Dr is loath to prescribe them. As I mentioned, codeine is excellent against migraines, yet someone who has them once in a while, as in once every month or two, can't get it and instead gets put on some expensive take every day maintenance crap that isn't very effective and makes you feel worse than the headache (all the time). Of course it is extremely effective at fattening the drug companies bottom line, but that's about all.

    As with just about anything if you follow the money trail you can come to a pretty good understanding of why things are the way that they are.
    To my point--- you knew you needed the anti-viral agent and couldn't get it. Your situation deteriorated and you were compelled to
    self medicate with probably exactly the right anti-bacterial agent you needed. Yet you were forced to pay good money for lousy inadequate care, below the standard of care. That is a common outcome IMO.

    As for codeine; I've been in Australia and New Zealand. In Australia anyone can go into a pharmacy and purchase the equivalent of Tylenol with codeine. The world doesn't come to a stop because of that.

    There are times and things when a doc is needed. There are times and conditions when most of us can use our own good judgment or seek out some advice from a pharmacist--- who may well say to go see a doc.

    What is objectionable is the economic toll of our attempt to control what people put in their mouths. We start with the assumption that people won't know enough to get professional advice. I disagree. Most will. And the ones who don't, it is still a matter of freedom to make up your own mind. (Not that getting professional advice saved MJ from himself or A N Smith from herself.)
    peckman28 and Rock and Glock like this.
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  3. #17
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    What if guns went away?

    What if I suddenly became younger, slimmer, and grew some hair?

    What if my wife told me that she was going to get two extra jobs just so I could buy extra guns?


    None of its ever going to happen.
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  4. #18
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    Lets see Cane killed Abel with a what, .45? When the last 2 people are left on the planet they will also find a way to kill each other.
    bigmacque likes this.

  5. #19
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    If drugs were to disappear than the kids would be resorting to huffing canned air (keyboard cleaner), abusing Robotusin, sniffing glue or huffing gas or paint. Wait a minute. Kids ARE doing that stuff. Oh well.
    Secret Spuk and Spirit51 like this.

  6. #20
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    Please see this Stratfor article about industrial scale production of methamphetamine by the Mexican drug cartels.

    Stratfor Article: Meth and Mexico and TCO's

  7. #21
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    Drugs are like clean air. If the world never had them no one would care. But now that they people have access to them they will always want them(the good and the "bad"). So there is only one thing u can do... Breathe and enjoy! Partake in what u like(recreationally, medically or spiritually) and don't eff with any one else's right to do so. It's the American way... Or at least what the constitution used to be about.... :-/

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1shooter View Post
    Drugs are like clean air. If the world never had them no one would care. But now that they people have access to them they will always want them(the good and the "bad"). So there is only one thing u can do... Breathe and enjoy! Partake in what u like(recreationally, medically or spiritually) and don't eff with any one else's right to do so. It's the American way... Or at least what the constitution used to be about.... :-/
    Oh I forgot... If someone infringes on you right to do what you want (as long as u aren't rapping killing and burning so to speak) eff them right in half ;-)

  9. #23
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    Personally, I do believe in some type of decriminalization is necessary. For many of the same reasons posted above and also because I believe in actually being a free society. If a person chooses to screw up their life and become a bum, that is their free choice......as long as the tax payers are not held "hostage" by their choice.

    I don't believe that making all drugs legal is the best solution either. Mostly due to grey area issues, like kids of drug users and the appropriate enforcement of child neglect laws. The children are innocents and deserve protection, but yet my guard is always up in fear of "nanny-state" enforcements that are already becoming bigger issues day by day.

    Legalization of drugs would include prescription class drugs as well. However, most typical practitioners are not the most knowledgeable on drug interactions and effects with many conditions. This is why a whole other career field has produced the pharmacist. This person's job is to check these things. My point being, medication errors are a huge problem in the hospital today with many nurses, doctors and pharmacists utilizing their extensive educations, and they still get it wrong.......imagine what happens with the general population. I recently recall hearing a statistic that laid out prescription drugs are the highest abused drugs of all controlled legal/illegal substances in the U.S. (can't find a reference at the moment).

    A utopian society will never exist despite which way you lean.....the question is what would be the best? Government has proven time and time again to not be the answer. I haven't had enough beers tonight to solve all the world's problems yet.
    “There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.”
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  10. #24
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    Well, we either need to get serious about the drug battle and be more ruthless, or as ruthless, as the cartels and fight them with the same firepower we used against Saddam Hussein or we need to do something different. Mexico's current government isn't taking the correct stance. They are allowing para-military nations to remain within their own borders. Smashing them down would make a statement.

    However, drugs are like criminals. They are always there to some extent. New people choose to go down the wrong path every day. No amount of legislation will ever change that. It's people choosing their own path that is the problem.

    Lets face it, drugs are not the problem. People not wanting to face reality is. If people wanted to stay in the real world then there would be no issue.
    suntzu and l1a1 like this.

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFury View Post
    Well, we either need to get serious about the drug battle and be more ruthless, or as ruthless, as the cartels and fight them with the same firepower we used against Saddam Hussein or we need to do something different. Mexico's current government isn't taking the correct stance. They are allowing para-military nations to remain within their own borders. Smashing them down would make a statement.
    I agree with that 100 percent. If we decide to not change drug laws then use declare Mexico or the cartels a threat to the US or whatever and use the military like SFury says. Never as a DHS bandaid for border security. And IMO Saddam was not even a threat to us. Just cracks me up how we choose to use our military.

    Just as a slightly sarcastic thought here. We love to say how great the second amendment is. And remember that part about a well organized militia? For all that think the military is the correct answer we should form militias and put our values on the line and travel to the border and help out the DHS. Sarcasm off. I am not about to advocate a war against the cartels when the problem is we can;t control our own people.

  12. #26
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    An unrealistic fantasy that will never happen.
    "What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  13. #27
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    I'm absolutely in favor of decriminalization, especially from the windfall revenue perspective that comes from taxing the sales of the ones that make the cut.

    But I'd even go a step further: annex Mexico. Whether they like it or not. Solves border issues, restricts the border we need to protect to a much smaller, more manageable border, solves a lot of trade issues, and helps with some other religious issues that I probably can't get into without getting a note from Sixto.
    I'm in favor of gun control -- I think every citizen should have control of a gun.
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  14. #28
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    You can't outlaw chemistry
    Secret Spuk and Hopyard like this.

  15. #29
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    what about the people who enjoy the drugs like we enjoy our guns....better to legalize...if guns are illegal then only criminals have guns....if drugs are illegal then only criminals do drugs....same concept
    Secret Spuk likes this.

  16. #30
    Ex Member Array mascariot's Avatar
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    how about the part of the constitution that gives us the right to pursue happiness.....

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