What if drugs went away?

This is a discussion on What if drugs went away? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; It would probably make things a lot simpler....

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  1. #31
    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    It would probably make things a lot simpler.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    What if guns went away?

    What if I suddenly became younger, slimmer, and grew some hair?

    What if my wife told me that she was going to get two extra jobs just so I could buy extra guns?


    None of its ever going to happen.
    You are right, that it is highly unlikely any of these this will happen, but as for changing our drug laws, or our tax laws, or even our gun laws, if we don't talk about it at all, if the objections remain in our minds and are not voiced, then for sure nothing will ever happen.

    I truly believe the pen is mightier than the sword; it just takes one heck of a lot longer and is much less efficient.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by wdbailey View Post
    You can't outlaw chemistry
    No but we sure as heck have tried by making all sorts of compounds difficult to impossible to purchase; sometimes
    even with a government purchase order.

    Over the 40 years or so that I worked with all manner of chemicals in schools, in government labs, we moved from
    a "just buy it form the catalog" arrangement to one in which all manner of paper had to be filled out to get ordinary harmless
    stuff because somewhere someone who didn't really know much decided it should be controlled in some way.

    We can't be free if we live in fear of our own shadows.

    I knew a chemist who had lost an arm by playing chemist as an adolescent. Well, it didn't deter him. It maybe spurred him on
    to learn more. Today, they'd have arrested him for possession of bomb making supplies and instead of getting a PhD in
    chemistry he's have become a felon with no arm, and no chance in life.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  5. #34
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    Drugs will never be legalized. It's a multi Billion $ a year business. Not just for the drug dealers.
    MisterAvis and Secret Spuk like this.
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  6. #35
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    I can remember when it was illegal for pharmaceutical companies to advertise their products to the general public. There were a lot less prescriptions written then. Healthcare was a lot less expensive also. But, strike down those laws and let free enterprise take over. "Ask your doctor if zambuforen is right for you." Dang, no matter what your problem, we now have a pill that will fix it. Dozing off in meetings? No, it's not a boring meeting. You have "Adult Onset Attention Deficit Disorder". We have a pill that will fix that. Before, a fifteen minute break and a cup of coffee would fix it, but now you should take a pill.

    So, go ahead and legalize drugs. God knows there aren't already enough dopey people out there.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  7. #36
    Senior Member Array zeppelin03's Avatar
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    drugs are not going anywhere. maybe they could legalize a couple. stop a few from being funneled in. clear some jails.

    doesn't seem like a popular option but probably more practical. I am not all for it bit seems better than what's been tried thus far.

  8. #37
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    WOW!!!! I guess my original question was not very clear.....

    I understand that drugs will never go away. Just as I understand that guns will never go away. My point was that anti-gun folks believe they can outlaw guns and they will go away and we will all hold hands and sing kumbaya. We know that if only criminals have guns that crime will increase and we will be defenseless. So my point was that if drugs went away, the people who manufacture, traffic, and sell drugs will simply turn to another type of crime, perhaps even more violent because that's the kind of people they are. They will never turn into good and productive people simply because their chosen criminal activity is gone.

  9. #38
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    the people who manufacture, traffic, and sell drugs will simply turn to another type of crime, perhaps even more violent because that's the kind of people they are. They will never turn into good and productive people simply because their chosen criminal activity is gone.

    That is very true.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Drugs will never be legalized. It's a multi Billion $ a year business. Not just for the drug dealers.
    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    the people who manufacture, traffic, and sell drugs will simply turn to another type of crime, perhaps even more violent because that's the kind of people they are. They will never turn into good and productive people simply because their chosen criminal activity is gone.

    That is very true.
    Repealing prohibition is an uphill battle not only for the above reasons; but also many who would benefit from repeal choose to suffer the results of their moral weakness as users or associates "in the belly of the beast" - accepting the life style to which they are accustomed, stupid or corrupt or both.

    To paraphrase Barry Goldwater from his acceptance speech of the Republican nomination for president in 1964, "Make no bones of this. Don't try to sweep this under the rug. We are at war.... And yet the President, who is Commander-in-Chief of our forces, refuses to say - refuses to say, mind you, whether or not the objective... is victory. And his [Attorney General] continues to mislead and misinform the American people, and enough of it has gone by."

    The WSJ reported yesterday, "Latin American statesmen... called Washington's antidrug efforts a failure and advocated the decriminalization of marijuana. U.S. anti-drug aid to the region has declined in recent years as two major programs, Plan Colombia and the Merida initiative, have wound down, though aid is still nearly $1 billion a year.

    The costs of this war are immense, and the war won't end, - the needless killing and suffering of legal officers, productive and innocent citizens, and non-violent associates with drugs - we won't reach the tipping point until at least half of the country, as in opposition to the war in Vietnam, rises up in active protest. Unfortunately, most people refuse to recognize that we are at war. The people aren't leading. And don't expect a Goldwater in Tampa this summer.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  11. #40
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    Drugs are not the problem. What if we stopped violating the most precious of property rights, the governance of our own bodies? What if we took the money, and by effect the violence out of the drug culture? The only thing government regulation is sure to achieve is the exact opposite of it's stated goals. Drug controls- higher drug use rates, higher rates of theft and violent crime. Public Education- an undereducated and unemployable youth. Seatbelt laws- fearless drivers and higher automobile fatalities. You get the picture..
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined." -Obligatory Founding Father Quote

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    To my point--- you knew you needed the anti-viral agent and couldn't get it. Your situation deteriorated and you were compelled to
    self medicate with probably exactly the right anti-bacterial agent you needed. Yet you were forced to pay good money for lousy inadequate care, below the standard of care. That is a common outcome IMO.
    This is such a dangerous opinion.... It is wholly wrong, yet propagates and causes distrust in the system.

    In my opinion, as a (former) practitioner, the initial care plan was correct. The "feeling better" was likely the virus running its course naturally over 5-10 days which coincides with day 2-3 of an antibiotic (or any other substance someone thinks will help like a supplement). However, small and unnecessary doses of antibiotics cause more resistant bugs etc.... Viruses are generally best left alone and treating the symptoms. Rarely is there an "anti-viral" that is effective (rarely, not never).

    Now, I'll become unpopular here by saying this- but customers can't be patients... Currently, there is no way to handle healthcare effectively in our system. Reform won't work, it needs to be blown up and restarted, but that is even more impossible. But when a doctor has to sell his services to people who have no clue about what he or she does and will judge good care as sub-par as the author above did then care givers give care that people think they want. This yields poor and improper care, high costs, and poor outcomes (such as we seem to have). The general public cannot manage their healthcare, thus the need for physicians etc... Bottom line is, when you are a customer and not a patient you feel improperly empowered. Your physician treated you properly, and you aren't happy. But the issue is the customer thinks they were right and justified by the outcome, when that is the wrong conclusion.

    Be careful with judgements and opinions like the above. They are part of the problem when believed.

    You can have freedom and liberty all you want, but that also entitles you to be wrong sometimes...
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  13. #42
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    I think it is a totally nonsensical question. Not saying that the topic of legalizing drugs is not worth the time to debate. But the point is should drugs be legalized because 1: Is it our right to put into our bodies what we want as adults (yada yada..I know the arguments that drugs can hurt those not taking drugs...so can infidelity and alcohol abuse)
    2:Since it is illegal right now, are people who are non violent offenders and just users taking up needed prison space?

    3: Will the drug cartels and other criminals find another way to continue thier ways? Sure. But like any other enterprise the amount of dealers is low compared to their customer base. The guy sitting in jail for dealing in very small amounts of drugs sold only to his friends would most likely not resort to robbery to supplement his income. He is not making much off of his buddies that it is sole ssource of income. IMO he will be happy to just buy his pot legally and not worry about anything else.

  14. #43
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    @vandyatc, (being the subject of this particular line of discussion), the root problem is that the Dr disregarded me and the fact that I had been directly exposed to a significant number of people with a confirmed infection from a virus a extremely high communicability rate on the basis that I didn't appear sick enough in his exhaulted opinion to be taken seriously. Perhaps I should have waited 6-8 hours because I sure would have appeared "sick enough" by then, but by that point an anti-viral, if warranted, would have been less effective. The fact is that he didn't know me well enough to be able to make such a determination as to "how sick I appear", but with a population that runs to the damned Dr ever time they get a stubbed toe and me not being that type, how could he possibly make a correct determination? Perhaps treatment with anitbiotics did something beneficial and perhaps it did not. The thing was that I was getting worse, not better and yes it is possible that in that same time period I would have gotten better with no intervention, but that is also not the point. The point is that the handling of my case was part of what caused me to refuse to seek out further consulation. The other part being that at this point it would have been prohibitively expensive as I would have had to resort to "emergency" care which is both ridiculously priced and lower in quality. Another problem is that most Drs get the stinking degree and think everyone else must be a complete imbecile that must be discounted and discreted. Again this jerk didn't know me personally, but based upon my education and experience (of which he was also not aware) this was a ascinine assumption for him to make about me.
    Edit: you are correct about one thing. The medical industry / system in this country is beyond salvage. There are times that I think I would have more faith in the shaman with a rattle than the man in the white coat.

  15. #44
    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    Pat Robertson Says Marijuana Use Should be Legal - http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/08/us...uana.html?_r=1 Interesting that a prominent conservative advocates some legalization.

    I have often felt as OP - if drugs (any or all) are 'legalized', what would the drug dealers then do for a living? There would definitely be some "unintended consequences" from legalizing drugs, and I'm not referring to the overall amount of users increasing or decreasing. There would be as-yet-unknown societal changes, my guess is some changes would be good, some bad. No easy solutions, for sure.

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    'Be careful, even in small matters' - Miyamoto Musashi

  16. #45
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    if drugs went away it would be like the stock market of the 1929..... a major crash and a lot of people killing them selfs

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