What if drugs went away?

This is a discussion on What if drugs went away? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Lotus222 The ATF wouldn't know what to do if they couldn't spend all of their resources busting distributors of pot, let alone ...

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Thread: What if drugs went away?

  1. #76
    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotus222 View Post
    The ATF wouldn't know what to do if they couldn't spend all of their resources busting distributors of pot, let alone other illicit substances. The police force in this country wouldn't have probable cause to search and arrest anyone without criminalization of drugs - therefore hates the idea of legalizing them. Pharmaceutical companies hate marijuana because it is so cheap to produce - they lose big bucks because of its alternate treatment effects.

    There is a ton of federal/state money and jobs that revolve around illegal substances. There is also a lot of power over the people by having illicit substances. These entities don't want to change the laws; people be damned.......

    Great post! I would have given it two 'likes', but the limit is one.

    I would go even a little further and state that the drug cartels themselves want to maintain the status quo. If the 'illegal' substances were legalized, then the cartels would be almost immediately put out of business.

    It's interesting that the 'war on drugs' seems to mainly benefit those that fight it. The 'good' guys (DEA, ATF, LE, prison system, etc) and the 'bad' guys (cartels, drug dealers, etc) all reap rewards from the 'war'.

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  3. #77
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    What if drugs went away?
    If flow of imports could be stopped completely, I'd bet that domestic and underground production would take up at least some of the slack. Certain people would be out of luck; others, unable to afford the vastly higher prices for tighter supplies; and some measure of domestic underground production would increase. Those choosing to abide by the new laws would be out of supply or have to find an alternative. Those choosing to break the new laws would be the new moonshiners.

    If harmful/illicit drugs were to vanish completely, I'd bet on there being a very rough period of time during which both consumers and purveyors of it would be forced to dramatically alter their reliance. Some would be coming down off addictions, then blowing sideways when they couldn't handle it. Some would be forced to find alternative sources of revenues. Some would fire up underground production.

    Reality is: street pharma keeps too many people employed. It ain't gonna change anytime soon.
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  4. #78
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    What if fairies and unicorns danced on my front lawn? Sheesh!
    l1a1 and msgt/ret like this.
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  5. #79
    Member Array l1a1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51 View Post
    What if fairies and unicorns danced on my front lawn? Sheesh!
    Somehow I think that you'd be coming out the front door and telling those damn fairies to get back on their unicorns, stop trampling your flowers and GET OFF YOUR LAWN!!!!!!! :)
    Spirit51 and msgt/ret like this.
    It's kind of like how some people have a sudden and insatiable desire to talk about vampires after the Twilight series became popular, except zombies are much less gay and more likely to exist one day

  6. #80
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51 View Post
    What if fairies and unicorns danced on my front lawn? Sheesh!

    Michael
    Spirit51 and l1a1 like this.

  7. #81
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    l1a1 and Hoganbeg like this.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
    Susan B. Anthony
    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
    Robert Heinlein

  8. #82
    Member Array l1a1's Avatar
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    Gee Spirit, that is exactly how I speak in real life. That "Word of the Day, Vocabulary Builder" Toilet paper is really paying off.
    It's kind of like how some people have a sudden and insatiable desire to talk about vampires after the Twilight series became popular, except zombies are much less gay and more likely to exist one day

  9. #83
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    Interesting how everyone seems to have missed the entire point of the thread. Perhaps I didn't ask the question in a comprehensible way.

    The main point was, "Would the drug dealers suddenly become productive members of society, or turn to another type of criminal activity? Something more violent perhaps?"

    I think we all know the answer to that, just like we know that if the anti-gunners had their way and guns went away it would not stop violence.

    Perhaps I should just state my opinion in the future rather than ask questions and assume people will arrive at the same conclusion.

  10. #84
    Member Array l1a1's Avatar
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    In response I would say stupid criminals are still going to put forth a hell of a lot of time and energy to try to steal or obtain a quick buck. Some of the stuff I have seen makes me wonder what they might have accomplished with an actual work ethic.
    It's kind of like how some people have a sudden and insatiable desire to talk about vampires after the Twilight series became popular, except zombies are much less gay and more likely to exist one day

  11. #85
    Member Array gobbly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Wow. The CIA funds itself by distributing drugs. News to me. I am not saying that our gvt has not done some stupid things but to imply that is how the CIA funds itself? You seem to have a major problem with the CIA.Just curious if you ever worked with them or for them? Just asking.
    The CIA facilitated the trafficking of cocaine at one point to fund rebel groups in latin american countries like Nicaragua. Can't say it's still going on, but can't say it isn't either. More recently they have handed over detainees to nations which do not uphold the Geneva conventions on torture. They also played a not so small role in putting Sadam into power in Iraq, and installing a hostile government in Iran, along with the same activities throughout latin america. No idea if they played in a hand in securing opium poppy production in the middle east, but it's likely they did. So though you may be correct in saying that they are not actively distributing illicit substances, you might not be, and historically they certainly have played a rather large part in such activity, whether they actually conducted the distribution or not. I believe that is what the poster you directed your comment toward was trying to say.

    It's not just the CIA. Remember Ollie North? This sort of activity has been going on for a long time, it's always been an 'ends justify the means' game.
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  12. #86
    Member Array gobbly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PB2 View Post
    Interesting how everyone seems to have missed the entire point of the thread. Perhaps I didn't ask the question in a comprehensible way.

    The main point was, "Would the drug dealers suddenly become productive members of society, or turn to another type of criminal activity? Something more violent perhaps?"

    I think we all know the answer to that, just like we know that if the anti-gunners had their way and guns went away it would not stop violence.

    Perhaps I should just state my opinion in the future rather than ask questions and assume people will arrive at the same conclusion.
    Can't say I agree with you. There are plenty of people who in the absence of prohibition on illicit substances are law abiding citizens. There is plenty of crime and violence that is caused by prohibition (personally I think it's the vast majority, but that is certainly open for debate), just as I'm sure in the absence of prohibition we would still see drug related violence, just as we still see alcohol related violence. I just happen to think we would see less violence, just as we saw less alcohol related violence after the 21st amendment. It's not surprising to me that since Sept, 2001, when the US started cracking down on our borders, making drug smuggling more difficult (and by all accounts more lucrative) we have seen a huge uptick in drug related violence on both sides of the border.

    Obviously prohibition is not the sole creator of violence, just as lust isn't, or greed, or any of the other motivating factors that lead humanity to perpetrate violence. There are people who are just bad regardless, that will never change. But I happen to believe that if you create a system where there is a large incentive (in this case financial) to become a criminal, you will see more people become criminals. Take away that incentive, and you will see less; at least that's what I believe.

    I don't see how this really relates to anti-gun rhetoric, other than the fact that I find anti-gun rhetoric as ridiculous as the idea of prohibition :)

  13. #87
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Criminals aren't criminals because of drugs.... it's because drugs can give them the best money in comparison to the amount of effort. If there weren't drugs, they would more than likely find other illicit means to gain funds.

    Now, some addicts breaking into places, burglarizing places and committing robberies for drug money or drugs .. might stop.
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  14. #88
    Member Array Moops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    Criminals aren't criminals because of drugs.... it's because drugs can give them the best money in comparison to the amount of effort. If there weren't drugs, they would more than likely find other illicit means to gain funds.

    Now, some addicts breaking into places, burglarizing places and committing robberies for drug money or drugs .. might stop.
    The reason drugs give them good money is because drugs are illegal. The more risk involved with any particular economic activity, the higher the return.

    since-the-war-on-drugs-started-in-1970-americas-prison-population-has-surged-700-percent-to-24-m.jpg

    As the image above shows, the War on Drugs has produced the world's largest prison population. It's doubtful that most of those people sent to prison for drug offenses will get out and become productive members of society.
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  15. #89
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    There probably would be more dumb people alive.
    Why?? Because at the last second, the Police are minutes away.

  16. #90
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gobbly View Post
    The CIA facilitated the trafficking of cocaine at one point to fund rebel groups in latin american countries like Nicaragua. Can't say it's still going on, but can't say it isn't either. More recently they have handed over detainees to nations which do not uphold the Geneva conventions on torture. They also played a not so small role in putting Sadam into power in Iraq, and installing a hostile government in Iran, along with the same activities throughout latin america. No idea if they played in a hand in securing opium poppy production in the middle east, but it's likely they did. So though you may be correct in saying that they are not actively distributing illicit substances, you might not be, and historically they certainly have played a rather large part in such activity, whether they actually conducted the distribution or not. I believe that is what the poster you directed your comment toward was trying to say.

    It's not just the CIA. Remember Ollie North? This sort of activity has been going on for a long time, it's always been an 'ends justify the means' game.
    Well, I was questiniong the statement the poster made which said the CIA funds "itself". He did not say others. As far as rebel groups the traffiking of drugs was so the rebels could fund themselves. Or put a better way..so overt tax dollars were not used to fund a covert operation which may or may not have had any oversight by the Senate Intelligence committee. But theCIA did not fund "itself" with drug money.

    And like you said, it isn't just the CIA, all governemtns and intelligence agencies have done 'bad things' too justify an end.

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