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What if drugs went away?

10K views 116 replies 58 participants last post by  Tayopo 
#1 ·
The anti-gunners are constantly screaming about how wonderful the world would be if all guns would somehow magically go away. They believe people would stop hurting each other and live together in peace and harmony.

My thought is how wonderful would it be if we were to somehow, magically, stop the flow of drugs into the US? How would all of those drug dealers make money? Would they quit crime and get legit jobs, suddenly becoming contributing members of society? Or would they simply turn to another type of crime? Something more violent perhaps?
 
#4 ·
...My thought is how wonderful would it be if we were to somehow, magically, stop the flow of drugs into the US? ......

No 'magic' is needed. Legalization would diminish (if not outright stop) the flow and would certainly work much better than the foolish and wasteful 'war on drugs'.

Of course, legalization is not a panacea. There would still be drug addicts and all kinds of other social and moral issues to address. But to me, a 'drug problem' should be treated medically, not criminally.

Just MHO.....

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#64 ·
As long as drugs make you feel good and give you a feeling of well being there will be a demand...If demand is strong enough there will be a supply. Legalize the stuff already and let people make their own decisions about whether to use it or not..heroin addicts could buy their fix for $1 and nod and scratch..they wouldn't have to rob and steal for a $200 a day habit....tweaks could just rot away if they please, cheaply....it would reduce crime and prison costs dramatically....drug cartels would have to find another market..but people want to impose their beliefs on everyone....but everyone is not alike and until they are drugs will be readily available at inflated prices and the ones who don't partake will be the ones paying for them.
 
#8 ·
Legalize drugs. Let the State tax them, have a Federal tax as well, and there goes a big part of the deficit. Also, the quality would be controlled better, so less chances for OD cases, and complications from bad stuff being used to cut the street drugs. The war on drugs has never worked, and will never work, and our prisons are filled with users who should not be there, taking up space they could use for violent criminals.

The side benefit to all that would be fewer street shootings due to drug deals gone bad, or somebody trying to take somebody elses "territory". So the anti gun folks would be happier because of fewer shootings, and everybody else would rest a bit easier knowing that it would be less likely for someone to break into their home or business to get money for drugs.
 
#12 ·
I was reading an article, one that I think was referenced in another thread, regarding why burglars do what they do and how they choose their targets. The introduction, which contained mostly interviews, made it abundantly clear that the primary reason was to support the drug based lifestyle. The 'war on drugs' is a failure. It is time for it to end. Legalize them and take both the crime and money out of it. Until we solve the problem of the special interest that are getting rich off the scheme, this will never happen. It is interesting to note that the good ol'US of A has the highest incarceration rate of any westernised nation, largely due to drugs.
 
#13 ·
If we rewrote all of our drug laws, not just the parts dealing with presently illegal ones, so that obtaining beneficial medicines didn't necessarily require a trip to a doctor, we'd save
a small fortune on medical care and let the fully qualified docs do some real world work instead of meeting with people who make appointments just to get
a medicine they have used for 30 years renewed.

At least half of the prescription drugs which are used to treat chronic conditions could go off Rx and a great many of the controlled ones don't need to really be controlled.

The whole system is a sort of welfare or make work for one segment. I'm not against the docs, and I want them to be able to make a good living, but they should be
advisors and diagnosticians, not prescribers, and what we call prescriptions should be renamed "recommendations." If you know what you need you don't need to be
spending a ton of money for a prescription because you don't need the recommendation in the first place.

Yup, some folks will go wrong and take stuff they shouldn't....too bad. We'd mostly benefit by the resulting freedom.
 
#14 ·
Hopyard, you raised an interesting twist to this thread. The short of it is that I agree with your post. Medical care is another one of those areas where collectively as a nation we spend approximately double per capita compared to the rest of the developed world and we're are not getting the results were paying for. Frequently, I hear the argument that the best care in the world is available here. Of that, I have no doubt, but it is not available to the average person. Somebody is making a fortune off the system, yet everyone claims that they aren't making any money. Doctors should, as you put it, make a good living and I would clarify that by saying good, not extravagant. The entire medical system in this country is in need of a cold boot reset, wipe, reformat, and re-install.

I rarely go to a doctor and I need to be pretty sick before I do. The last time i went, I was pretty sure I had the swine flu (that year it was breaking out in the US) as I had about 4 close co-workers all tested and diagnosed with it. When I started getting sick, I went to the Dr with the intent to get checked for it and if I had it get some of the medicine to help cut it short (my coworkers who got it reported feeling pretty well within 24 hours). The stupid overpaid pedigree refused to even check me for it because I didn't seem, sick enough. they gave me a prescription for some "strong cold medicine" that makes you sleep for about 4-6 hours. Days later I continued to get sicker and got to the point where I had a moderate fever and was starting to have difficulty breathing and wheezing. Of course this was over a holiday weekend, where the Dr office would have been closed and I refused to go to the hospital. Finally, I took some left over antibiotics for a dental prescription (I had a 8-10 days supply). Within less than 24 hours of starting those, the fever was all but gone as was the wheezing and I could breath easy again. Oddly enough, respiratory problems and pneumonia are a complication of the swine flu that the idiot wouldn't test me for. I mention this story because antibiotics are one of those "controlled" substances that should probably be in everyone's SHTF bag.

The attitude in this nation towards pain pills is similarly disgusting. It used to be, and I assume it still is, legal to buy Tylenol with codeine OTC in Canada. It isn't terribly strong stuff, but it is more powerful than Advil or Tylenol alone. Codeine is also one drug that will usually stop a migraine cold. Here in the wonderful USA if a Dr prescribes it, it gets noted on their record and if they have to answer for it if they prescribe it too much. Setting aside the fact that most narcotic pain killers are safer and have fewer side effects than the stuff that you can get OTC, your typical Dr is loath to prescribe them. As I mentioned, codeine is excellent against migraines, yet someone who has them once in a while, as in once every month or two, can't get it and instead gets put on some expensive take every day maintenance crap that isn't very effective and makes you feel worse than the headache (all the time). Of course it is extremely effective at fattening the drug companies bottom line, but that's about all.

As with just about anything if you follow the money trail you can come to a pretty good understanding of why things are the way that they are.
 
#16 ·
To my point--- you knew you needed the anti-viral agent and couldn't get it. Your situation deteriorated and you were compelled to
self medicate with probably exactly the right anti-bacterial agent you needed. Yet you were forced to pay good money for lousy inadequate care, below the standard of care. That is a common outcome IMO.

As for codeine; I've been in Australia and New Zealand. In Australia anyone can go into a pharmacy and purchase the equivalent of Tylenol with codeine. The world doesn't come to a stop because of that.

There are times and things when a doc is needed. There are times and conditions when most of us can use our own good judgment or seek out some advice from a pharmacist--- who may well say to go see a doc.

What is objectionable is the economic toll of our attempt to control what people put in their mouths. We start with the assumption that people won't know enough to get professional advice. I disagree. Most will. And the ones who don't, it is still a matter of freedom to make up your own mind. (Not that getting professional advice saved MJ from himself or A N Smith from herself.)
 
#15 ·
If we stopped or legalized drugs then how would the theives in Washington (congressmen and senators) continue getting richer? If they wern't benifitting ($$$) from illegal drugs or illegal immagrents they woul have stopped both a long time ago. The govment would like us not to be armed easer to control that way
 
#17 ·
What if guns went away?:confused:

What if I suddenly became younger, slimmer, and grew some hair?:image035:

What if my wife told me that she was going to get two extra jobs just so I could buy extra guns?:blink:


None of its ever going to happen.:nono:
 
#32 ·
You are right, that it is highly unlikely any of these this will happen, but as for changing our drug laws, or our tax laws, or even our gun laws, if we don't talk about it at all, if the objections remain in our minds and are not voiced, then for sure nothing will ever happen.

I truly believe the pen is mightier than the sword; it just takes one heck of a lot longer and is much less efficient.
 
#19 ·
If drugs were to disappear than the kids would be resorting to huffing canned air (keyboard cleaner), abusing Robotusin, sniffing glue or huffing gas or paint. Wait a minute. Kids ARE doing that stuff. Oh well.
 
#21 ·
Drugs are like clean air. If the world never had them no one would care. But now that they people have access to them they will always want them(the good and the "bad"). So there is only one thing u can do... Breathe and enjoy! Partake in what u like(recreationally, medically or spiritually) and don't eff with any one else's right to do so. It's the American way... Or at least what the constitution used to be about.... :-/
 
#23 ·
Personally, I do believe in some type of decriminalization is necessary. For many of the same reasons posted above and also because I believe in actually being a free society. If a person chooses to screw up their life and become a bum, that is their free choice......as long as the tax payers are not held "hostage" by their choice.

I don't believe that making all drugs legal is the best solution either. Mostly due to grey area issues, like kids of drug users and the appropriate enforcement of child neglect laws. The children are innocents and deserve protection, but yet my guard is always up in fear of "nanny-state" enforcements that are already becoming bigger issues day by day.

Legalization of drugs would include prescription class drugs as well. However, most typical practitioners are not the most knowledgeable on drug interactions and effects with many conditions. This is why a whole other career field has produced the pharmacist. This person's job is to check these things. My point being, medication errors are a huge problem in the hospital today with many nurses, doctors and pharmacists utilizing their extensive educations, and they still get it wrong.......imagine what happens with the general population. I recently recall hearing a statistic that laid out prescription drugs are the highest abused drugs of all controlled legal/illegal substances in the U.S. (can't find a reference at the moment).

A utopian society will never exist despite which way you lean.....the question is what would be the best? Government has proven time and time again to not be the answer. I haven't had enough beers tonight to solve all the world's problems yet.
 
#24 ·
Well, we either need to get serious about the drug battle and be more ruthless, or as ruthless, as the cartels and fight them with the same firepower we used against Saddam Hussein or we need to do something different. Mexico's current government isn't taking the correct stance. They are allowing para-military nations to remain within their own borders. Smashing them down would make a statement.

However, drugs are like criminals. They are always there to some extent. New people choose to go down the wrong path every day. No amount of legislation will ever change that. It's people choosing their own path that is the problem.

Lets face it, drugs are not the problem. People not wanting to face reality is. If people wanted to stay in the real world then there would be no issue.
 
#25 ·
Well, we either need to get serious about the drug battle and be more ruthless, or as ruthless, as the cartels and fight them with the same firepower we used against Saddam Hussein or we need to do something different. Mexico's current government isn't taking the correct stance. They are allowing para-military nations to remain within their own borders. Smashing them down would make a statement.
I agree with that 100 percent. If we decide to not change drug laws then use declare Mexico or the cartels a threat to the US or whatever and use the military like SFury says. Never as a DHS bandaid for border security. And IMO Saddam was not even a threat to us. Just cracks me up how we choose to use our military.

Just as a slightly sarcastic thought here. We love to say how great the second amendment is. And remember that part about a well organized militia? For all that think the military is the correct answer we should form militias and put our values on the line and travel to the border and help out the DHS. Sarcasm off. I am not about to advocate a war against the cartels when the problem is we can;t control our own people.
 
#27 ·
I'm absolutely in favor of decriminalization, especially from the windfall revenue perspective that comes from taxing the sales of the ones that make the cut.

But I'd even go a step further: annex Mexico. Whether they like it or not. Solves border issues, restricts the border we need to protect to a much smaller, more manageable border, solves a lot of trade issues, and helps with some other religious issues that I probably can't get into without getting a note from Sixto.
 
#33 ·
No but we sure as heck have tried by making all sorts of compounds difficult to impossible to purchase; sometimes
even with a government purchase order.

Over the 40 years or so that I worked with all manner of chemicals in schools, in government labs, we moved from
a "just buy it form the catalog" arrangement to one in which all manner of paper had to be filled out to get ordinary harmless
stuff because somewhere someone who didn't really know much decided it should be controlled in some way.

We can't be free if we live in fear of our own shadows.

I knew a chemist who had lost an arm by playing chemist as an adolescent. Well, it didn't deter him. It maybe spurred him on
to learn more. Today, they'd have arrested him for possession of bomb making supplies and instead of getting a PhD in
chemistry he's have become a felon with no arm, and no chance in life.
 
#46 ·
That part actually doesn't exist. You have confused the Declaration of Independence which is not part of our law with our
constitution which is the foundation of our law.
 
#39 ·
the people who manufacture, traffic, and sell drugs will simply turn to another type of crime, perhaps even more violent because that's the kind of people they are. They will never turn into good and productive people simply because their chosen criminal activity is gone.

That is very true.
Repealing prohibition is an uphill battle not only for the above reasons; but also many who would benefit from repeal choose to suffer the results of their moral weakness as users or associates "in the belly of the beast" - accepting the life style to which they are accustomed, stupid or corrupt or both.

To paraphrase Barry Goldwater from his acceptance speech of the Republican nomination for president in 1964, "Make no bones of this. Don't try to sweep this under the rug. We are at war.... And yet the President, who is Commander-in-Chief of our forces, refuses to say - refuses to say, mind you, whether or not the objective... is victory. And his [Attorney General] continues to mislead and misinform the American people, and enough of it has gone by."

The WSJ reported yesterday, "Latin American statesmen... called Washington's antidrug efforts a failure and advocated the decriminalization of marijuana. U.S. anti-drug aid to the region has declined in recent years as two major programs, Plan Colombia and the Merida initiative, have wound down, though aid is still nearly $1 billion a year.

The costs of this war are immense, and the war won't end, - the needless killing and suffering of legal officers, productive and innocent citizens, and non-violent associates with drugs - we won't reach the tipping point until at least half of the country, as in opposition to the war in Vietnam, rises up in active protest. Unfortunately, most people refuse to recognize that we are at war. The people aren't leading. And don't expect a Goldwater in Tampa this summer.
 
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