Apparently, things are not going so well with ICE.....

Apparently, things are not going so well with ICE.....

This is a discussion on Apparently, things are not going so well with ICE..... within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Read the article. Sounds like ICE, an arm of Homeland Security, is run about as well as BATF....and TSA.... ICE Agents: “Shooting No Surprise w/ ...

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Thread: Apparently, things are not going so well with ICE.....

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Apparently, things are not going so well with ICE.....

    Read the article. Sounds like ICE, an arm of Homeland Security, is run about as well as BATF....and TSA....

    ICE Agents: “Shooting No Surprise w/ Obama Bad Morale, Mgt @ Immigration Agency;” EXCLUSIVE Victims’/Shooters’ Names
    ,=====o00o _
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  2. #2
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Would you have good morale if your bosses continually hamstrung you in doing your job and let politics affect your day to day procedures coupled with rampant corruption was giving you a black eye in the view of the public?

  3. #3
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    While what has been noted by AZchevy might be an issue, what we have here is a guy who was being disciplined. That he
    pulled a gun on his boss indicates one of two possible scenarios:1) the boss is (was) a total jerk doing an unneeded and vindictive firing, and not doing it by the book;

    2) the guy NEEDED FIRING, as demonstrated by his lack of self control and willingness to pull a gun on his boss.

    I think you guys are trying to extrapolate an isolated incident of workplace violence to policy issues. The policy issues may or may not be real, but likely played no part in the incident.

    Also, please note that contrary to popular opinion that Federal Employees can't be fired, disciplined or demoted, they can and they are. Happens all the time. Looks like it was about to happen in the present incident.

    The only difference between the Federal system and private system is that the word "arbitrary" gets left out. You have to be able to document a performance deficit (seems only fair to me), give someone a "performance improvement plan" which is an opportunity for them to get themselves straight, and since most don't or won't, document the refusal to live up to the terms of the improvement plan. With those minor matters out of the way, the employee is history. S/he has avenues of appeal, which after all is fair enough, but they are not wide in scope and usually don't go well for the fired employee.

    It is a far from perfect system, but for the employee it beats coming up to 3:00 PM on a Friday and suddenly being ushered out the door by a guard with no forewarning. And for the employer/supervisor, one's conscience is clean if it is done by the book.
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  5. #4
    Member Array db4usa's Avatar
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    You make several good points Hopyard. However, my observations of federal employment practices have revealed that the screw ups usually get promoted...just saying with sarcasm.
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    I've had bad bosses. I've had one that not only ran me off from a good company, he was powerful enough to put the brakes on my career for that entire industry.

    It never crossed my mind to shoot him.

    Get another job, get another career. Don't blame the system or the boogeyman.
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    This following statement from the article says it all;

    ICE Los Angeles Deputy Special Agent in Charge Kevin Kozak, was part of the problem, not the solution. I condemn violence, I wish him well, and I hope he fully recovers. But while he certainly did not deserve to be shot, the many ICE agents I know have universally condemned this man and not a single one is surprised this happened. In fact, a retired federal agent I know who worked at ICE told me that everyone predicted that one of these days, Kozak was going to take a bullet by fed-up, abused employees. Other agents from all over the country have echoed the sentiment. I’m told that there have been years of complaints filed against Kozak for bad management and discrimination. Never once was anything done about it.

    Same old BS from private sector workplaces.

    They never seem to get rid of the major source of the problem, they just expect underlings to "deal with it".
    Well, they dealt with it.

    Government(all) is like a snake consuming itself, but never fully digesting the meal, therefore the cycle continues
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