Blog Post on Warrants and the Fourth Amendment

Blog Post on Warrants and the Fourth Amendment

This is a discussion on Blog Post on Warrants and the Fourth Amendment within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; So after a few recent events in the news, I decided to write a post on the subject. Here...

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    Member Array laguna0seca's Avatar
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    Blog Post on Warrants and the Fourth Amendment

    So after a few recent events in the news, I decided to write a post on the subject.

    Here
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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    I am in full agreement of your conclusions. Calling breaking down a door using stun grenades a search is ludicrous.

    Michael

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    Senior Member Array ntkb's Avatar
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    Agreed, and while we are at it dump the ninja suits.

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    The method of entry on a search warrant does not have anything to do with the physical search of the property it has to do with the threat level, real or imagined, pertaining to those inside the residence.

    Often times a tactical team is given facts pertaining to the suspect, residence, guns or no guns, kids, animals and so on and that is about it they do not really care what the charges are they are simply there to gain access to the residence, take the person into custody and leave the search for the detectives.

    Are these type warrants over used, who knows, everyone will have a different response. If they kick the door and head in behind a distraction device and the person is injured, killed or not as big a threat the cry is get rid of this type tactic. On the other hand if they knock, wait, go in and an officer is injured or the suspect escapes, evidence lost or whatever the powers that be are again criticized for not taking harsh enough action in the first place.
    After viewing the video the officers knocked, announced, waited, announced, turned on sirens, announced, waited and then breached. If this is their version of a "No Knock" warrant I would hate to see what their knock and announce is. I really doubt that the guy had no idea it was the police but I was not there so don't know what he was thinking.

    In regards to some of the other statements made until you have been there kicking the door doing what they do really need to be kept to yourself. The ninja suits are many times Nomex suits that prevent the officers from sustaining burns if there is a fire or chemical incident, they are protective devices just like body armor nothing more. As far as who would grab what if their door was kicked in followed by a flash bang more power to you if you think you can beat the odds go for what you know.

    The incident quoted in the article is tragic, no doubt. IF and it is a big IF things were done as was presented in the article there should be action taken but I was not there. The subject was armed, confronted and it had a tragic outcome. Has the state not settled the matter under investigation? This was from awhile back.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    Is this the dope dealing Guerena that an effort at making some sort of martyr is being made on behalf of?
    "People who take an Internet handle of a great warrior, are usually the first to go fetal when crunch time comes." - Me

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    I do not think the risk of no-knocks are worth the risk of evidence destruction, ecspecially if it was drugs. I know the horror story of drugs and what they can do. Alchohol destroys lives also. We are not going to get rid of our appetites for drugs. So legalize it. As far a LEO psafety, I agree with that. But again, if drugs were legal, we might not have as many of these so therefore we would be protectng the LEO's
    peckman28 likes this.

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    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    I'm as pro-law enforcement as they come, but I have always wondered also why a suspect isn't taken down when he's someplace outside his home. Seems like it would be safer to grab him in a parking lot, a stop sign or some other place where he doesn't have access to a long gun and doesn't have home field advantage.
    To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the crocodile, hoping he will eat you last - but eat you he will.
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    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    I can understand some "dynamic entries" because I know that there are unpredictable criminals who may not have a regular pattern of activity outside their home. I'm not saying no-knock warrants shouldn't ever happen; they have their place. I will say they're terribly overused. There have been dozens and dozens of cases over the last couple decades of people who had a SWAT team bust down their door and it turns out they were at the wrong house or got a false tip. In my opinion, police departments should have to get some kind of special warrant for no-knocks, with more stringent requirements to get it approved. Were I a judge and presented a no-knock warrant to sign off on, I'd be asking them to present practically enough evidence to convict someone.
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    Paaiyan believe me you do. I have been turned down more than once when applying for a no knock for various reasons.

    Some judges are more likely to give no knocks than others so in some places you can pick which judge you go to. Once signed the responsibility, so to speak, of the warrant now falls to the judge and judges are immune from liability.

    Again just from the video that was presented this was not a true, or what I would call, no knock warrant but maybe I missed something. Suntzu for the sake of not starting yet another argument with you the legalization of drugs is not the answer to the question but to each his own. Puff, Puff, Pass dude...rock on and all that.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Suntzu for the sake of not starting yet another argument with you the legalization of drugs is not the answer to the question but to each his own. Puff, Puff, Pass dude...rock on and all that.
    Why on earth did you reply with my name when I was making a general statement in a forum not directed at you? You don't like my opinion that is cool. Then articulate why you do not agree with it. I am open to opinions on the "drug war". Been there done that overseas. It don't work. But if you have insight on how to make it work I would be interested in your opinion. And I do not know why you think I wanted to start something. My comments were for the forum, not you. Quite a leap. And I am assuming you are not suggesting I take drugs. You seem more professional than that.

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    Suntzu I am not implying you use drugs. I feel that legalization of the drug trade would simply lead to an explosion of drug usage. Yes alcohol is legal and regulated, how would it work with narcotics? You can only use meth on Tuesdays? I feel it could lead to a destruction or in part a large breakdown in society as a whole.

    Many drugs are so addictive that in some cases simple expermintation leads to addiction. We also could not afford the treatment programs for those who became hooked nor could we afford the related healthcare costs that come only with drug abuse.

    The government would not be able to control it, most drugs, as many are home grown/home made so to speak in nature so they could not regulate it. The countries that control the drug trade, Mexico, Afghanistan, and others would control supply and profits would go to god knows who to fund who knows what.

    For whatever reason you and I get on each others nerves in posts which is fine I guess. From now on we will make sure we post the words "sarcastic", "joking", "not directed at you" and so on so we can avoid the clashes.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    For whatever reason you and I get on each others nerves in posts which is fine I guess. From now on we will make sure we post the words "sarcastic", "joking", "not directed at you" and so on so we can avoid the clashes.
    Now that we can agree on LOL. We can just disagree on the drug issue though. I don't even drink and I think drugs are dum. But..the supply will not stop, the drug cartels will floursih, and we spend probably more money on prison and rehab right now than if we just provided rehab. I am not saying to legalize it because we can't control it (which we can't). But it is a personal choice to ruin your life. Just like gun laws are in place with the rationale it suppose to prevent you from harming somebody (society). That is wrong, you punish somebody for the act itself. Same should be for drugs.
    But we can drop it here since you think I am a crack head (sarcasm) LOL, and I think you are a Victorian prude (more sarcasm).
    And we disagree on things becasue we both want is best for our country, just disagree on the course.

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    Member Array laguna0seca's Avatar
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    I am not a police officer, but I have been involved in raids, albeit in less friendly neighborhoods. My problem is not with the way the officers conducted themselves, but with this type of raid in general.

    The arguments for and against the legalization of drugs is an entirely different issue, one which has legitimate points on either side. Not just from potheads.

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    Tens of thousands of Mexicans have died because Americans have an insatiable appetite for dope. By any standard; Nixon's war on dope is an abject failure. The war continues because US prisons are big business. It does not matter how many police raids take place; there will be more dope imported in 2012 than there was in 2011.

    God forbid the US should start a comprehensive drug prevention program like countries in Europe have.
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    Yes personal choice to ruin your life but it does not stop with just your life. It creates a domino effect of all those around you.

    No do not think you are a crackhead, a yankee, but not a pothead. (humor) Anyways just dont see how legalizing it would work but to each his own.

    Eliminating the raids themselves would not be a good idea they are needed in certain circumstances, more regulation/oversight sure cant hurt.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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