Contract police forces?

This is a discussion on Contract police forces? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Hopyard I think you are describing a fairly special situation, re-employment of annuitants; though it was done on a contract basis. This ...

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  1. #46
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I think you are describing a fairly special situation, re-employment of annuitants; though it was done on a contract basis.
    This isn't the same thing as bidding out a governmental function to a privately held company which then goes out
    and hires people to replace the on-board people doing the work.
    But the contracting does not necessarily go out to a company. One of my friends figured out that as his contract was coming to an end he did not want to stop being a cop. What he was then able to do was get a contract with one of the municipalities in the county. Again it was a straight pay deal, with no benefits. He basically went from turning his stuff in at our supply section to the city station, got new uniforms and ID and was back working the next day.
    The city got an officer with over twenty years experience (better than half working inside the city limits with concurrent jurisdiction) that was ready to roll day one.
    With a new hire, they would have been paying salary and benefits for at least twenty weeks before they even finish the academy. Then you have them riding with an FTO for a couple of months, and then there is still no guarantee they are going to make the cut.
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  3. #47
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    Just to make sure we, MCP1810 and I are on the same page; I'm not objecting to what you describe at all.
    I think that type of arrangement works well for all involved. It provides extra income for the retired officer, personnel for
    the hiring department at reduced cost, and a trained experienced officer for taking care of business. That's win win win win
    win all around.

    I have no problem with that.

    I don't think what you are describing is what people generally mean when they talk about contracting out, outsourcing, or
    privatization.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  4. #48
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    I think party of the problem in a general sense is a lack of clarity when people talk of contracting stuff out. It is not always going to be the government taking the low bid on contact for replacing an entire agency.

    And it is not always that great a deal for the contractors. A couple of guys that had recently retired from my department were over in Iraq training police there. Some of them possibly worked with Tacman. Being contractors they could not just go to the armory if they had a weapons issue. some coworkers and I indeed up sending tools and repair parts and manuals over there to keep things working.
    With some of the contact security work I have done I had to provide everything from ammo to radio gear. If something didn't work I didn't get paid and contact was breached as fail to perform.
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  5. #49
    Member Array kwoodford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Well gents I have be a contractor for over 6 years now and have never had my ethics, morals or patriotism questioned before.

    Whether you have a regular police department or a contracted department it still would fall back to the people they hire. Most of the time the contractor is better trained and has more experience than other candidates. No matter who it is if they have no morals and ethics to begin with it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

    To those who would say that you could tell them to pound sand that would be incorrect they would not be private security but would be fully certified LEO's with all the powers that come with it granted by the state. The city/municipality would have ultimate control and the contractor would want to avoid problems in order to keep the contract.

    Just as others have stated many places already contract out garbage, sewer, ambulance or have private companies in their place. The problem with private companies is the city/municipality has no control over them, they are a business operating within their city as long as they have the proper permits their is nothing they can do.

    Whether you like it or not contractors are here to stay and our role will increase as time goes on.
    Maybe in your neck of the woods...but here in California if you haven't completed a P.O.S.T. (Peace officer standards and training) academy you would be no better than a security guard.

    I don't mean to offend you but yes you can tell security to go pound. The legislators would have to enact a new law that would allow contractors to have police powers.

    Different states have different criteria as to what a Peace Officer is.

    lasty it would epend on what the contractor did as to being better trained. I wasn't questioning your background or training or capability...I don't know you and you don't know how I was trained or what I was trained in either.

    I'm not saying this will never happen in Ca and it could happen overnight but I will guarantee a long legal battle before it does happen. At least here.

  6. #50
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    Kwood. I can assure you if they hired contracted out LE in California they would meet minimum standards set by P.O.S.T. or they would be granted and exception. Once again they would probably roll over the employees they have already.

    I just read somewhere that one eastern state is contracting a big name company to enforce fishing regs for them so maybe it has already started.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  7. #51
    Member Array Nightflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Kwood. I can assure you if they hired contracted out LE in California they would meet minimum standards set by P.O.S.T. or they would be granted and exception. Once again they would probably roll over the employees they have already.

    I just read somewhere that one eastern state is contracting a big name company to enforce fishing regs for them so maybe it has already started.
    Hi Tacman, First, Thank You for your Service, I have few questions concerning one (big time) Security outfit and I would like to know a bit more about the company, if it's ok,

    I like to send you a pm? cool pics!

    Night

  8. #52
    Distinguished Member Array tiwee's Avatar
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    Fact is we are financial pedophiles. That is we are borrowing ~40% of annual federal expenditures from future generations and spending it on ourselves.

    What is so special about our generation that we think future generations should pay for our lifestyle?

    Shame.

  9. #53
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    Nightflyer not a problem.

    "Financial Pedophiles" I will have to remember that one.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  10. #54
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    I'm going to predict something here. Contract police forces in the near future. Let's face it.....states, counties, and cities are running out of funds to where services are compromised and the employed law enforcement are asked to pay more for benefits, or do away with benefits, cut back on hours, etc.......... In the next few years I figure contract police forces will become reality. Still not much help on the spot for the common victim. What do you think?
    I am late to this party but here goes, contract police forces are really nothing new, 30 years ago I lived in an affluent part of NYC where they collected money from the homeowners and hired private patrols, kind of a professional neighborhood watch. while they didn't have police powers or do police duties like take accident reports, they did patrol the streets and they did detain bad guys. My area was not unique. Some villages on Long Island had 6 man police departments that may have well been like private shops.

  11. #55
    Member Array Nightflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Nightflyer not a problem.
    Did you get my PM? my lap top fragged out, lol. Hit me back if you didn't there seems to be a problem with my lap top and pm's.

    Thank You Tacman, be well and stay frosty.

    Night

  12. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    I am late to this party but here goes, contract police forces are really nothing new, 30 years ago I lived in an affluent part of NYC where they collected money from the homeowners and hired private patrols, kind of a professional neighborhood watch. while they didn't have police powers or do police duties like take accident reports, they did patrol the streets and they did detain bad guys. My area was not unique. Some villages on Long Island had 6 man police departments that may have well been like private shops.
    That really has nothing to do with a true contrated or privatization of a police force like the OP was talking about. We are talking about contractors that would be peace officer or what ever you want to call them with the same rights and responsibilites and authority of a LEO. Not high priced security guards doing limited security work.

  13. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Lots of municipalities have already shut down their local police departments and contracted with county sheriff's departments to provide services. No reason to believe it won't continue.
    We have that for the first year in the town I am in. It seems to be working well. The major problem with a small departments is the lack of opportunity and mobility. A few would leave every year for that reason. Now that the Sheriffs department runs it ( almost all were absorbed if qualified) the opportunities exist. The police officers seem to like it and they wanted the change to happen


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  14. #58
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    That really has nothing to do with a true contrated or privatization of a police force like the OP was talking about. We are talking about contractors that would be peace officer or what ever you want to call them with the same rights and responsibilites and authority of a LEO. Not high priced security guards doing limited security work.
    if you think about it, down at the patrol level there really isn't too much difference between a sworn officer or a well train private guard. the differences begin after a crime happens and then the private security guys are out done by the so called real cops

  15. #59
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    I am a few days late to this thread, but to those who say a contract force is not the way to go because it has to be more expensive to the taxpayer, provide inferior services or not serve the public good. I disagree. You have to look at the total cost of providing the service at both the government level and in the private setting. True, private companies are driven by the profit motive and the government, clearly, is not. (Yes, they make money on tickets, etc, but in the end, by nature, government is more about spending money than making it).

    Hop - you have your knickers in a knot because some CEO may make a good bit of money running an outsourced company. Sure he will. It is called return on investment. But, to earn that salary, he will have found ways to drive process improvements, enhance efficiency, reduce waste and provide a superior product. A private company can earn a profit because it has the incentive to do what it takes to earn that profit.

    We can disagree on this for now, but in a few years, one of us will be proven right. We will have to wait and see who that is.
    suntzu likes this.
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  16. #60
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    if you think about it, down at the patrol level there really isn't too much difference between a sworn officer or a well train private guard. the differences begin after a crime happens and then the private security guys are out done by the so called real cops
    Well, I think that is the whole point. We are talking about contracting out LEO services, not security guards. When an officer is on patrol and he spots someone he has more authority than a security guard...that is what the whole conversation is about.

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