Contract police forces? - Page 5

Contract police forces?

This is a discussion on Contract police forces? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by ksholder We can disagree on this for now, but in a few years, one of us will be proven right. We will ...

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  1. #61
    Senior Member Array wdbailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post

    We can disagree on this for now, but in a few years, one of us will be proven right. We will have to wait and see who that is.
    In a few years I expect to see very nasty fragging and "friendly fire" incidents between the real military and the private contractors. God only knows what new hell will develop on the streets with weird gaggles of corrupt corporate mercenaries blundering around like buffoons.


  2. #62
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Well, I think that is the whole point. We are talking about contracting out LEO services, not security guards. When an officer is on patrol and he spots someone he has more authority than a security guard...that is what the whole conversation is about.
    not necessarily true, armed private patrol can detain a suspect, it all depends on the laws in your locale

  3. #63
    Member Array Nightflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wdbailey View Post
    In a few years I expect to see very nasty fragging and "friendly fire" incidents between the real military and the private contractors. God only knows what new hell will develop on the streets with weird gaggles of corrupt corporate mercenaries blundering around like buffoons.
    Well Sir, you call them buffoons, they are in fact highly trained and educated skilled operators, many team players are from the Special Force Community. SF, Airforce Combat Controllers, Force Recon Marines, Naval Warfare Groups, Delta Squadron Teams, SBS, and SAS Regiments. Try applying for an Armed Officer position at Lockheed Martin or as an officer position with the US government and watch who makes the selection pool.
    suntzu likes this.

  4. #64
    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
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    Sound like it will be th OK corral on a daily basis. I feel nostalgic about the wild west, but have no desire to live in that life.
    BigJon


    "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" ~ Mark Twain

  5. #65
    Senior Member Array wdbailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightflyer View Post
    Well Sir, you call them buffoons, they are in fact highly trained and educated skilled operators, many team players are from the Special Force Community. SF, Airforce Combat Controllers, Force Recon Marines, Naval Warfare Groups, Delta Squadron Teams, SBS, and SAS Regiments. Try applying for an Armed Officer position at Lockheed Martin or as an officer position with the US government and watch who makes the selection pool.
    Yeah I can read the brochures as well as the next guy. Having been a high speed, low drag, fast mover while under command guidance in the past is no guarantee of well reasoned and disciplined behavior in the future.

    How many contractors have ever been brought up on charges and been tried during the Iraq War? A handful at most.

    What are we to believe from this, that going private instantly transforms people into the military version of The Stepford Wives?

    Much easier the believe that the system that contracts them is corrupt to the core and anyone involved can expect carte blanche to engage in whatever idiocy or criminality they desire.
    Secret Spuk likes this.

  6. #66
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wdbailey View Post
    Yeah I can read the brochures as well as the next guy. Having been a high speed, low drag, fast mover while under command guidance in the past is no guarantee of well reasoned and disciplined behavior in the future.

    How many contractors have ever been brought up on charges and been tried during the Iraq War? A handful at most.

    What are we to believe from this, that going private instantly transforms people into the military version of The Stepford Wives?

    Much easier the believe that the system that contracts them is corrupt to the core and anyone involved can expect carte blanche to engage in whatever idiocy or criminality they desire.
    Wow, those were some pretty bold statements. Are there bad apples everywhere...yup. No disrespect to LEO's but a bunch of them get caught all the time getting into trouble...just like every other person in society.
    I love your last sentence which I was biting my toungue to not reply. I guess spending over 15 years in SOCOM, and now a contractor I must be a scum bag that has lost my morals and ethics. Thanks for informing me!

  7. #67
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    "In a few years I expect to see very nasty fragging and "friendly fire" incidents between the real military and the private contractors. God only knows what new hell will develop on the streets with weird gaggles of corrupt corporate mercenaries blundering around like buffoons."

    Wow and you factual basis for this is......................................? Many of the private contractors are prior military so why would they have problems with a military unit?
    I have been contracted to the DOD and DOS providing security services for the last six years in three countries so why all of a sudden are there going to be "friendly fire" incidents between the contractors and the military?

    "Corrupt Corporate Mercenaries"

    Again where did you come up with this? Do you even know what the definition of a Mercenary is without googling it?

    "Yeah I can read the brochures as well as the next guy. Having been a high speed, low drag, fast mover while under command guidance in the past is no guarantee of well reasoned and disciplined behavior in the future."

    A contractor has more rules, regulations, laws and guidelines to go by than the US tax code. Yep some contractors did stupid things as have priests, cops, doctors, lawyers and judges. They got caught and lost their jobs. By these statements I can tell all you have done is read the brochures and never been high speed, low drag anything.

    How many contractors have ever been brought up on charges and been tried during the Iraq War? A handful at most.

    Could it be the reason for this is that they have not committed any crimes to get arrested for? Oh wait you saw it on CNN so it must be true. You sit on your butt and see something reported and think you know the whole story. Ever been shot at bubba? Ever rolled over and IED? Ever been on the receiving end of an RPG?
    In places like this you cannot tell the players even with a team roster it changes that quick so do not even pretend to know what you are talking about.

    What are we to believe from this, that going private instantly transforms people into the military version of The Stepford Wives?

    A PMC is a professional who chooses to provide services to the US Government which are needed in certain areas of the world. They are not some robotic killing machine if that is what you are implying.

    Much easier the believe that the system that contracts them is corrupt to the core and anyone involved can expect carte blanche to engage in whatever idiocy or criminality they desire.


    Sounds to me like you have not only read the brochures but watched youtube and played to much Call of Duty and are talking out of your ass. Contractors operate on the edge all the time. You do not have the protection of the military or a SOFA (Status of Forces Agreement) with the host nation. Idiots and criminals do not last long in this business they either get arrested or dead pretty damn quick.

    Suntzu I guess you and I had better never meet in person because according to this guy we would kill all that oppose us and take over whatever state we are in.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  8. #68
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    @Tacman: I told ya: it is a full moon!

  9. #69
    Member Array Nightflyer's Avatar
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    "Frag Out" lol. Hooah.

  10. #70
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    not necessarily true, armed private patrol can detain a suspect, it all depends on the laws in your locale
    Be careful not to get charged with false imprisonment. Misdemeanor but still a punishable crime.

  11. #71
    Senior Member Array wdbailey's Avatar
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    When Did Being a Government Contractor Become a Bad Thing

    Yeah it's all sunshine and lolipops ain't it?

    No contractor ever committed a crime? Really?

    I don't have to play whateverthefork on a game console, which is good since I don't own one, I just just have to kick back and talk to neighbors who were activated in the Guard and Reserves to hear stuff. Maybe it's biased but then it's not so hard to find stuff like this too PeaceReporter - Unfriendly fire

    Seriously, people aren't impressed at all by it. No one gives a flying fork at a rolling donut about what you do in Afghanistan either. I'd hazard a guess that most Americans these days don't feel so great about ever have had on drop of blood spilled in the sandbox

  12. #72
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    WD. Thanks for the article. It does nothing more than explain the role, in a very well thought out and complimentary fashion, of the PMC. If this is your idea of a slam to contractors you really need to do more research.

    I remember back when military contractors were revered and respected. When you thought of a military contractor, you thought of someone who would step up and go into the worst places on this planet, risking their lives so young American warfighters wouldn’t have to.

    Yes, they got paid more than Soldiers or Marines, but they also often didn't have as much protection, supporting forces or as powerful weapons as the warfighter. Yet they were right there, on the left and right. Contractors performed then and still do today many jobs so soldiers are free to perform their jobs, and focus on the mission at hand.

    Contractors were and still are greater subject matter experts in their area of work – that’s why they’re hired to perform a specific function in combat or at home. Many who I know are also veterans themselves, although there are many who aren’t. For those who are veterans, they bring with them a wealth of experience and knowledge that they can bestow on young and eager warriors.

    What I’d like to know is when did being a “contractor” become a bad thing? When did calling someone “one of those contractors” become the same as calling them a four-letter word?

    Was it when Blackwater had four of its employees tortured and hung from a bridge in Fallujah? Maybe it was when contractors were deployed to Afghanistan to help mentor and train Afghan Police because the German military failed to do so.

    I have seen contractors around the U.S. Army for years, and well before the attacks on 9/11. They perform vital and necessary functions, which are needed by our military in order to perform their missions -just as Department of the Army (DA) civilians do. I once heard in the ‘90s that it took twelve soldiers from the non-infantry jobs in the Army to support one infantryman. I have no idea how many DA civilians and contractors it takes in addition but I would imagine it would be close to another twelve.

    Bottom line is it seems to me that as of late, contractors are blamed for many of the military’s woes (from budgets to fatal accidents). JFCOM was just disbanded with a key criticism being that contractors outnumbered service members. Calls from congress and government agencies for the need to insource and cut contracts makes government contracting seem more like a cancer than the critical support function it’s designed to be.

    I spent 22 years serving this country in the Army and am now serving her as a military contractor. I am proud of all my service and I hope other contractors feel the same way. I am not saying there are not bad people out there that give contractors a bad name, there are. Just like there are bad DA civilians and service members in uniform.

    As the saying goes, “don’t hate the player, hate the game”. Government contractors did not develop the need and positions themselves, the government determined the need and came to the civilian industry to help fill the gap. Contractors are serving this country we all love, and they do it without the job security and benefits DA civilians and service members enjoy.

    No one serving this country – whether they’re a government civilian, service member, or contractor – should be made to feel guilty or ashamed of that service.

    Are you a government contractor? How do you feel about your service to the country? Or do you think the criticism is deserved?


    In regards to the second article. You are kidding right? An article from 2005. You really need to get out more. The article did not say there were firefights between US military and contractors it said that a company travelling through fired at random and some shots hit Marine positions. Once again you have proven my point. You sit on your couch and watch TV and automatically you know everything.

    I don't really care what you or anyone else is impressed with. I do not do this job to win brownie points with the couch potato, Oprah watchers of America. If this is all you got I will say again you are talking out of your ass but troll on you are sitting safe in your trailer.

    I see you did not answer my questions either in reference to your service or ever being in harm's way. I guess your silence is answer enough.

    This thread will probably be locked soon but I have no doubt we will have many more chances to discuss topics and with your knowledge and intellect it should prove to be quite entertaining.

    Semper Fi.
    packinnova likes this.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  13. #73
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wdbailey View Post
    When Did Being a Government Contractor Become a Bad Thing

    Yeah it's all sunshine and lolipops ain't it?

    No contractor ever committed a crime? Really?

    I don't have to play whateverthefork on a game console, which is good since I don't own one, I just just have to kick back and talk to neighbors who were activated in the Guard and Reserves to hear stuff. Maybe it's biased but then it's not so hard to find stuff like this too PeaceReporter - Unfriendly fire

    Seriously, people aren't impressed at all by it. No one gives a flying fork at a rolling donut about what you do in Afghanistan either. I'd hazard a guess that most Americans these days don't feel so great about ever have had on drop of blood spilled in the sandbox
    Stop trying to stear this thread to security contractors overseas. They perform a different function than would be contractors performing LEO duties in the US. If you have an agenda I suggest you write letters to Media Matters.
    As far as your buddies who have been called up telling you war stories...that is most likely what they are. Most contractors like most of anybody perform their jobs with professionalism and honesty. They are no different than any other occupation.

    But, this is a forum for opinions until an mod closes the thread. So it you want go right ahead googling your heart out and trying to find 'dirt' on contractors. I am sure all I have to do is read the daily paper and I will find a LEO, firemans, accountant, doctor, McDonalds worker who has done a bad thing today. But heck, what ever floats your boat.

  14. #74
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wdbailey View Post
    When Did Being a Government Contractor Become a Bad Thing

    Yeah it's all sunshine and lolipops ain't it?

    No contractor ever committed a crime? Really?

    I don't have to play whateverthefork on a game console, which is good since I don't own one, I just just have to kick back and talk to neighbors who were activated in the Guard and Reserves to hear stuff. Maybe it's biased but then it's not so hard to find stuff like this too PeaceReporter - Unfriendly fire

    Seriously, people aren't impressed at all by it. No one gives a flying fork at a rolling donut about what you do in Afghanistan either. I'd hazard a guess that most Americans these days don't feel so great about ever have had on drop of blood spilled in the sandbox
    Ive been trolling this thread, I have to say this is one of the worst post Ive ever read. They perform an admiral duty for our country. So please refrain from talking on a subject you know nothing about.....
    suntzu, tacman605 and Nightflyer like this.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  15. #75
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    No worries HB.

    He is one of those who although they never wore a uniform, served on a foreign soil, wore a badge on the street, been in harms way or spilled a drop of blood in defense of others knows just what it is like. He can make statements or give advice on how it should be done because someone told him that a friend of his third brother's cousin who was in Kuwait said so or he saw it on Fox News and it just had to be true.

    What he says,though irritating, is so easy to refute it is entertaining which is in fact a valuable commodity here. After all I took an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States so I guess I am protecting his right to say what he wants even though he is still talking out of his asna.

    By the way asna is a Swedish word since there has been a rash of comprehension problems lately.

    Semper Fi.
    packinnova likes this.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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