Defensive Carry banner

Contract police forces?

8K views 79 replies 33 participants last post by  Nightflyer 
#1 ·
I'm going to predict something here. Contract police forces in the near future. Let's face it.....states, counties, and cities are running out of funds to where services are compromised and the employed law enforcement are asked to pay more for benefits, or do away with benefits, cut back on hours, etc.......... In the next few years I figure contract police forces will become reality. Still not much help on the spot for the common victim. What do you think?
 
#2 ·
Lots of municipalities have already shut down their local police departments and contracted with county sheriff's departments to provide services. No reason to believe it won't continue.
 
#5 ·
Many counties here now house inmates from the city departments. Privately owned and in cohorts with vending companies etc..... They also back-charge the cities for storing inmates unable to pay fines etc....... I'm talking your on the street police officer where you'll need to dial an 888 number instead of local....kinda like Pizza Hut delivery. Thinking about it more...every good reason for any American to take up self protection as a hobby before it gets to the point of necessity. It won't be long. Want to talk about corruption now with the current forces? Just think about how many checks and balances there will be with contractors on the market. Sort of like how our federal government works now. Special interests. Oh-yeah........they'll all be subject and answer to national security (rogue law created by your establishment). No questions asked. While you carry a defensive sidearm.....don't forget to save one for yourself before being taken prisoner of the state. I'm just sayin'. What's your favorite caliber for a 'one-shot'?
 
#6 ·
I'd like to chime in...In the courts here in San Bernardino County the Judges have control of the purse strings and have tried to get rid of the Deputies and replace them with whom they want. However our Sheriff has said I will never release any of my prisoners to any person who is not a sworn peace officer in this state. They have tried to contract with out Highway Patrol which is also the state police and they were given the answer NO with no explanation.

Therer are some small towns, well there were... I don't know for a fact now, but my Bro in Law worked for a small private town as a cop and he never was a sworn officer per P.O.S.T. The Indian Reservation officers out here are not cops either. So yes I can see many municipalities going in that direction. It will only take 1 to break the ice and off they go.
 
#7 ·
Private Contractors are the way of the future. Before LE it will be the Fire Departments though.

Law Enforcement is still a money making/revenue producing proposition, generally speaking, so they will be there for a bit longer. Contractors even though they draw a bigger salary there are no long term expenses like insurance or retirement to contend with.
 
#8 ·
Coming from a contractor LOL!:wave: I am not sure about this. It will save money for the towns and cities. Also, not being a lawyer, I would assume that any any lawsuit brought because of LE abuse or misconduct will be shared by the contractor and city saving some more money. I think it would work as long as their are no incentives for arrests. That could cause the LE contractor to work on the edge and possibly be prone to violating someones rights. So, I guess with good oversight I am for private contractors as long as it is well thought out. Cities will save big on benefit packages and retirement. Also, if the contractors are not performing you can get a new contract with someone else. You can't fire an entire police dept and start from scratch.
As a side not I am all in favor of vouchers for schools to send your kids to private schools. The more private schools the less public school teachers and more of a cost savings.
 
#11 ·
Back when I was an LEO our PD had a contract with a local cleaners,we would drop uniforms off for cleaning/repair and they would bill the PD.That was about 30 years ago
 
#13 ·
That is a pretty broad statement. Many functions done by the military and local and state are contracted out and they work just fine. So if you have a problem with a single contractor spell it out and don't put all contractors in the same boat. If you want to talk about corruption and wasting tax payers money we can always start a talk about unions. But I won't go there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rolyat63
#14 ·
I thought about this some and I have come up with that private or contract security cannot make arrest as police do. For example here in California a LEO can make an arrest for a Felony whether or not a felony has been commited. The leo has to reasonably believe that a felony has been commited. A private person can only arrest if a felony has been commited in their presence...much like a misdemeanor for a LEO.

Basically you could go tell a private security to go pound sand because their job is to observe and report. As far as contract, if they are not sworn they are no different that a private citizens and yes you can tell them to go pound sand. Like hell if I would stop for a private or contract security for an infraction. I see lots of legislation happening. There is a huge difference bewteen lets say Blackwater Contract Security in a military zone and my local street corner.
 
#15 ·
As a cold shiver runs up my spine, I wonder. It could be worse, the Feds get involved and we get something like the TSA as local law enforcement. :gah: :aargh4: :blink:

In my area, I think this would be a good ways off. Our county is pretty rural, and growing, so at best, were improving our situation money wise, at worst holding our own. California, I could see something like this happening on a large scale and in a short manner of time. I do agree, it would be fraught with problems, poor attitudes, and authority complexes would likely be the norm.

:bier: Here's to hoping Ram Rod's crystal ball is really fuzzy. No offense.
 
#16 ·
I have simply never understood the economics of contracting out. There are still salaries to be paid to get a job done. If you pay less, you get less-- usually--- in lower quality people, higher turnover rates, less diligence to duty. Meanwhile, government NEVER needs to make a profit and can if necessary operate in the red.

Private companies have to pay "executive salaries" which are often far higher than what a City Manager might make. Private companies have to pay "stockholder or investor dividends," and that diverts money from the task which needs doing. And sadly, private companies probably have to pay kick-backs to keep their contract or get it in the first place.

The whole idea makes no sense. I'd say more about private contracting in Iraq and Afghanistan but I'd get points for
going into politics instead of sticking with policy.

When you work for government, e.g., police or EMS, or firefighter, you can console yourself about pay a little bit with the solace
that you are engaged in a patriotic act. That goes away when working for a contractor who owes you no loyalty, and you therefore owe it no allegiance.

When you hear the words "privatization" and "contracting out" a shiver should run up your spine. Unsaid will be the lost
livelihoods and the tax dollars diverted to private pockets.

I have no doubt we will see more and more efforts at privatization; even the conversion of some state Universities to
Private ownership. Its the way the ultra rich become more ultra rich.
 
#17 ·
FF and LE are bankrupting municipalities all over my state (Rhode Island). In the old days, we used to have more volunteers. That's the answer IMHO. We used to have volunteers in my town, but because of insurance concerns, they were eliminated. That's BS. Time to bring back as many volunteers as possible. Make them take basic training, or whatever. But there are LOTS of folks who would like to contribute to their communities.

Let folks be actively involved, and we'll save money at the same time.

-
 
#19 ·
I will stay out of Afghanistan and Iran also. Contracts there are of a different animal than in CONUS and will start a political discussion. But to address Hopyard's points:
I have simply never understood the economics of contracting out. There are still salaries to be paid to get a job done. If you pay less, you get less-- usually--- in lower quality people, higher turnover rates, less diligence to duty. Meanwhile, government NEVER needs to make a profit and can if necessary operate in the red.
The salaries are all you pay. Not retirement nor benefits. As far as paying less I would disagree in general. Contracted personal usually get paid more than their government counter parts as far as base pay. And as a taxpayer do you really feel it is OK for the government to operate in the red?

Private companies have to pay "executive salaries" which are often far higher than what a City Manager might make. Private companies have to pay "stockholder or investor dividends," and that diverts money from the task which needs doing. And sadly, private companies probably have to pay kick-backs to keep their contract or get it in the first place.
I don't give a hoot what the executives make. And I as a stockholder like getting my dividends check. What I care about is how well the contractors is doing the job and is it cost effective for my tax dollar. I do agree about kickbacks but wouldn't those kickbacks be going to that poor City Manager you mentioned who is not makeing as much as a CEO? And kickbacks are illegal.

When you work for government, e.g., police or EMS, or firefighter, you can console yourself about pay a little bit with the solace
that you are engaged in a patriotic act. That goes away when working for a contractor who owes you no loyalty, and you therefore owe it no allegiance.
I am a contractor now and was in SOCOM for 15 years. I feel just as good about myself now and as patriotic as I did when I was in. So what is your point. Did it occur to you that a lot of folks get out of the military or government work becasue they can make a better life for themselves and their family?

When you hear the words "privatization" and "contracting out" a shiver should run up your spine. Unsaid will be the lost
livelihoods and the tax dollars diverted to private pockets.
If it is being effective and saving taxpayer money do you really care where it is going? What about tax money for new roads? Should their be now contractors and have it run by the governement?

I have no doubt we will see more and more efforts at privatization; even the conversion of some state Universities to
Private ownership. Its the way the ultra rich become more ultra rich.
I hope they do!!! I am all for cash vouchers for primary education also. Got news for you. This is coming from a dad that is sending his kid to college in the fall. State schools might be cheaper but you get squat for financial aid compared to private colleges. I won't name schools here or dollar amounts but this is apprximately what our financial aid packages looked like:

Private school 1: 85 percent grants and schalorships 15 percent subsidized loans
Private school 2: 80 percent grants and scholarships 20 percent subsidized loans
Private School 3: 100 percent grants, scholarships, plus work placement while in school to guarantee he can afford it
Public school 1: 20 percent grants and loans
Public School 2: 55 percent grants and loans
 
#20 ·
We'll just continue to disagree on most of the key points. IMO privatization is a monstrosity that sucks the tax payer
far worse than traditional ways of taking care of the government's responsibilities. Any and all possible savings come out of
the hides of the guys doing the work and any and all profits move the money from the tax payer to the corporate moguls.

But what the heck, it sounds good and there are so many con artists clambering for a piece of the action, and so many pols
with their palms up, what the heck-- make them all happy. :-
 
#22 ·
We'll just continue to disagree on most of the key points. IMO privatization is a monstrosity that sucks the tax payer
far worse than traditional ways of taking care of the government's responsibilities.
Any and all possible savings come out of
the hides of the guys doing the work and any and all profits move the money from the tax payer to the corporate moguls.
In bold: Please state some facts on that. Not one specific contract in CONUS but a pattern where it costs the government (us, the taxpayer) more by contracting wisely when it replaces government workers with contractors. Also,you seem more hung up on who is making money rather than how much tax dollars can be saved.
 
#23 ·
Yes I can see something along those lines happening, A lot of the smaller municipalities here have already consolidated fire departments to save money. So I can see LEO getting consolidated also, and see this as only a temporary fix. Until city officals stop the wasteful spending, municipalities will again need to make even more cuts. Or start looking at outsourcing.
 
#26 ·
Contracting is all around us. Do you see your city/ate doing the road construction around your area. No. It's some private company.

75% of homes in the US are protected by Volunteer Fire Dept. and EMS. There operating revenue is mostly generated by donations.

Most Americans have had to learn to get by with less, why can't these cities/towns do it.
 
#33 ·
Exactly. This is why we should disband the US military and hire private military contractors. We can do the same for the intelligence agencies. And say good bye to the VA hospitals because privatization can do it better. The same with private roads, we can just make every road a toll road and sell it to a corporation. Right?
 
#27 ·
On my side of the border, the province of British Columbia just renewed a 20 year contract for the RCMP to police any jurisdictions without their own PD (Most of BC).

The municipality of Esquimalt (suburb of Victoria) disbanded their PD a few years back and contracted with Victoria PD to police their area. They are now contemplating not renewing the contract and going with the RCMP.

Contracting out does not necessarily mean privatization.
 
#28 ·
On my side of the border, the province of British Columbia just renewed a 20 year contract for the RCMP to police any jurisdictions without their own PD (Most of BC).

The municipality of Esquimalt (suburb of Victoria) disbanded their PD a few years back and contracted with Victoria PD to police their area. They are now contemplating not renewing the contract and going with the RCMP.

Contracting out does not necessarily mean privatization.
Part in bold-- Yes of course, done as you described it is distinct from privatization. However, here in the US usually the
two terms are used more loosely so the former is in fact the latter.

There is nothing wrong for example with the idea that TX might contract out with some other state to provide prison beds
to ease overcrowding in that second state. The problems arise when government gives up its authority to organizations
which by their nature will not act except in their own best economic interest-- and at government expense.
 
#29 ·
Are these gonna be the same guys that replaced my garbageman, who was an employee of the city, lived in the community, was pretty conscientious for the most part, didn't leave a mess, didn't have a pony tail/body art, & looking like he just got paroled from the state pen,
and was only trying to make a decent living, raise a family and live the American Dream?

When in H.E. Double Hockey Sticks are people and politicians in this country gonna give more of a damn about their fellow Americans, than saving a few bucks, then giving city council a raise, and city vehicles with a gas card, etc, etc,,
Folks, we are in the handbasket, hows the ride???
"Scuse me while I go throw up in my mouth, I can't take this stupidity anymore.
 
#31 ·
Are these gonna be the same guys that replaced my garbageman, who was an employee of the city, lived in the community, was pretty conscientious for the most part, didn't leave a mess, didn't have a pony tail/body art, & looking like he just got paroled from the state pen,
and was only trying to make a decent living, raise a family and live the American Dream?

When in H.E. Double Hockey Sticks are people and politicians in this country gonna give more of a damn about their fellow Americans, than saving a few bucks, then giving city council a raise, and city vehicles with a gas card, etc, etc,,
Folks, we are in the handbasket, hows the ride???
"Scuse me while I go throw up in my mouth, I can't take this stupidity anymore.
What is the problem with a ponytail and body art? How is that even relevant to this discussion?
 
#30 ·
The Fedl Govt already "contracts" private security forces & enforcment personnel thru Homeland security ...... SURPRISE ! ! ! !

One such group descended on a Social Sec office in a small town here, with AR's, etc.... as a drill to see how "prepared" they were ......... evaluate their tactics, etc.
 
#32 ·
Well gents I have be a contractor for over 6 years now and have never had my ethics, morals or patriotism questioned before.

Whether you have a regular police department or a contracted department it still would fall back to the people they hire. Most of the time the contractor is better trained and has more experience than other candidates. No matter who it is if they have no morals and ethics to begin with it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

To those who would say that you could tell them to pound sand that would be incorrect they would not be private security but would be fully certified LEO's with all the powers that come with it granted by the state. The city/municipality would have ultimate control and the contractor would want to avoid problems in order to keep the contract.

Just as others have stated many places already contract out garbage, sewer, ambulance or have private companies in their place. The problem with private companies is the city/municipality has no control over them, they are a business operating within their city as long as they have the proper permits their is nothing they can do.

Whether you like it or not contractors are here to stay and our role will increase as time goes on.
 
#34 ·
I respect your opinion but the problem with private companies in regards to policing, is that policing involves potentially taking away someones rights and using the judicial system to enforce their judgment. I think this is a state power and should never be delegated to a private group. The same with national defense as can a private group place their own interests over that of the nation for more profit? It happens all of the time. I think with garbage, water, and some civil services it is not so important, though I myself would rather the state do them.
 
#39 ·
I am not a KBR combat plumber. I am a Private Military Contractor who has been working armed in the sandboxes of the world for over 6 years now.

Afghanistan I was contracted to Department of State as a Police Advisor and Trainer for the Afghan National Police. We taught a variety of topics from Personal Security, Firearms, Afghan Constitutional Law to Drug Interdiction. I started off in Kabul teaching and writing lesson plans, policy and procedures to be used. I then took my team and spent the next 15 months in the southern provinces of Helmond, Kandahar and Uruzgan attached to the 3rd and 7th SFG teaching those subjects and advising local forces along with the Dutch, British, Canadian, Romanian and Australian Armies and SF Units.

This is one of the PSD teams that I was with. This was taken at the Kabul International Airport. The helicopter in the background is an Mi-26 Hip, the largest transport helicopter in the world as far as I know. We used these Mi-8 Hips and vintage Hueys. Travel in Kabul at this time, and still is, could be a bit tricky. There were few good roads so you did not have much choice as to your routes.



This is from Uruzgan Province. We assisted the locals in arresting/confiscating 10,000 pounds of Hashish. The bundle in the background burning is about 400 pounds worth. My partner in crime is also a former Marine and Police Officer. When the fighting became to intense for the Police to come to us we would fly out to their regions "A team" camp and teach from there.



The contracts I have worked on including Kuwait (DOD) and Iraq (DOD and DOS) standards were pretty stiff just to be considered for the contract. Afghanistan required 8 years as a trainer or instructor with all credentials current, then you had to go to three weeks in Virginia at the Crucible/Kelly McCann and his cadre of SF and Active Duty Marine Instructors. Only about 40% made it through the testing, evaluations, firearms and the PT tests. Here in Iraq I am a trainer on another DOS/OSCI (Office of Security Cooperation-Iraq) which recently switched over from the DOD when the military left or most of them anyway.
I came to Iraq as a Medical Officer, I was an LPN in the Army National Guard, and worked my way up so to speak to the Site Security Manager for several camps throughout Iraq. You have to have a unique skillset to work on these contracts. At one time I was the Medical Officer, Operations Officer and Armorer at the same time. No more money just more work.
The smallest camp I was on was a COP (Combat Outpost). A 100 or so soldiers and 50 contractors which was located three clicks from Iran. The camp was destroyed by IRAM's and taking the lives of soldiers and other contractors who were friends of mine, the day after I turned over security to the Army Unit there just as they completed the handover to the Iraqi Army.
The largest is where I am at now a COS (Contingency Operating Station) in Northern Iraq almost to Kurdistan. At it's peak housed and maintained several thousand Airmen and Soldiers securing the city of Kirkuk and the Airbase located here. I was the Site Security Manager here for 300 guards, K-9's, US Supervisors and 11 miles of perimeter and the only airfield in the area. At it's peak we received 94 rockets in a month, now we only get a couple a week.

Standards can be set as high or as low as a city/government or whomever would want them to be. Most of the time the current employees if they meet the standards would be transitioned over to the new contract. Please keep in mind that one of the things a company does is find people whom are already trained to a high standard, most of the time higher than what is there, and they bring them in and simply add to the training they already have. In most cases the incoming individuals will gel as a team in a very short time without any further training if they have to but we also train on our own to a higher standard DOS required or not.

Yes the money paid is good but the risk is high but you get what you pay for.
 
#40 ·
As you well know, this particular use of contractors has been highly controversial for a variety of good reasons.

One of these is it creates a disincentive for re-enlistments, thus raising the government's overall cost of maintaining
an army.

In any case, what you are doing is a specialty job, not normally undertaken by the government to be done with
its own servicemen or its own employees. I don't think it compares well with the civilian privatization of garbage collection,
water system operation, ambulance and EMS services, to list a few.
 
#41 ·
You've made my point for me tacman.

Where do these private contracting organizations get their employees?

The recruit them away from government service after the government has spent a lot of time and money training them.

How are they then employed?

The do the job that the government trained them to do only now at approximately 3 x the cost that the government incurred when they actually worked for the government.

Pure and simple corruption from the top down.

I can't blame an operator for taking a job that pays like that, I'm sure the pay and benefits are a lot better than you received previously

I do however hold nothing but the deepest contempt for the entire system of corruption and cronyism that makes this possible
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top