Drug Wars....how long before we have stuff like this here?

This is a discussion on Drug Wars....how long before we have stuff like this here? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; These murders in Mexico are happening because Americans have an insatiable appetite for dope. An effective drug prevention program would reduce the murder rate in ...

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Thread: Drug Wars....how long before we have stuff like this here?

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
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    These murders in Mexico are happening because Americans have an insatiable appetite for dope. An effective drug prevention program would reduce the murder rate in Mexico and the US.
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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array RubenZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig 210 View Post
    These murders in Mexico are happening because Americans have an insatiable appetite for dope. An effective drug prevention program would reduce the murder rate in Mexico and the US.
    That is why they should just close border :)
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  4. #33
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Closing the borders is not going to prevent determined smugglers. It will only jack up the prices of 'imported' drugs and possibly cause more violence deeper in our borders as 'mini cartels' form to control the flow of drugs. It will not stop the use of designer drugs and meth which are produced locally. As far as preventing BG's from slipping across the border and causing problems, I submit we already have enough BG's of every ethnicity to go around. We can shut the borders and it wouldn't change a darn thing.
    Only the American people can stop the flow of drugs and violence but quiting or legalizing. Even if not all drugs are legal the ones that are can be taxed and that money used for a better and more comprehensive drug interdiction program.
    I am personally familiar with the war on drugs on several continents and we are just wasting billions of dollars for no return. No matter how many BG's we round up or shipments we stop, 100 times that get through. The cartels assume there will be operational losses. So everytime you see the DEA showing a big bust, a drug cartel accountant just adjusts his books. They get richer and we waste money.
    Anybody that thinks the war on drugs is working or is a good idea (even by shutting down the borders) is smoking some stuff that may not be legal.
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  5. #34
    Senior Member Array MotorCityGun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moops View Post
    Another reason to get serious about ending the quagmire that is the War on Drugs. Alcohol prohibition caused an increase in crime, why is it taboo to even discuss that the WOD might be enriching the cartels?
    So, how many alcohol related deaths has there been since the end of Prohibition?
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  6. #35
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Moops said:
    Another reason to get serious about ending the quagmire that is the War on Drugs. Alcohol prohibition caused an increase in crime, why is it taboo to even discuss that the WOD might be enriching the cartels?
    Quote Originally Posted by MotorCityGun View Post
    So, how many alcohol related deaths has there been since the end of Prohibition?
    There have been plenty and it has been the choice of the user to abuse alcohol. And yes, tragically innocent people get killed every year by drunk drivers. But that is because of abuse of a drug. For the most part you do not have violent crime for the sole purpose of buying and selling a legal product. Heck, if folks think that pot should be banned they should also think that booze should be banned also. But I see folks guzzling a beer at parties and saying at the same time how dangerous drugs are. What a joke. The only difference is one is legal.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MotorCityGun View Post
    So, how many alcohol related deaths has there been since the end of Prohibition?
    Your question implies that legislating morality saves lives. It follows that gun control saves lives. See the problem?
    Just to clarify, hypothetically, do you think that, all things equal, the world is a better place with alcohol prohibition? Nannystate is a most dangerous place. Reality is more complex than ink on sheepskin.
    New law doesn't just create new criminals, but it may create a new culture of criminal enterprises - murderous cartels, for example.
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  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MotorCityGun View Post
    So, how many alcohol related deaths has there been since the end of Prohibition?
    Probably about the same number as there would have been with prohibition, minus all the gangster-related stuff.
    Last edited by Mike1956; May 16th, 2012 at 03:35 PM.
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  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Originally Posted by MotorCityGun
    So, how many alcohol related deaths has there been since the end of Prohibition?
    Probably about the same number as their would have been with prohibition, minus all the gangster-related stuff.
    And the deaths from illegal distillation using car radiators, antifreeze, lead, and methanol; and explosions from un-ventilated concentrations of flammable vapors....
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    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MotorCityGun View Post
    So, how many alcohol related deaths has there been since the end of Prohibition?
    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Moops said:


    There have been plenty and it has been the choice of the user to abuse alcohol. And yes, tragically innocent people get killed every year by drunk drivers. But that is because of abuse of a drug. For the most part you do not have violent crime for the sole purpose of buying and selling a legal product. Heck, if folks think that pot should be banned they should also think that booze should be banned also. But I see folks guzzling a beer at parties and saying at the same time how dangerous drugs are. What a joke. The only difference is one is legal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pistology View Post
    Your question implies that legislating morality saves lives. It follows that gun control saves lives. See the problem?
    Just to clarify, hypothetically, do you think that, all things equal, the world is a better place with alcohol prohibition? Nannystate is a most dangerous place. Reality is more complex than ink on sheepskin.
    New law doesn't just create new criminals, but it may create a new culture of criminal enterprises - murderous cartels, for example.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Probably about the same number as their would have been with prohibition, minus all the gangster-related stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pistology View Post
    And the deaths from illegal distillation using car radiators, antifreeze, lead, and methanol; and explosions from un-ventilated concentrations of flammable vapors....
    I couldn't have put it better myself.
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  11. #40
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    Closing the border is not a possibility. I travel across the border to Mexico several times a year. The commerce in trucking and in train traffic as well as people who cross every day is astounding and would be impossible to control completely. More law enforcement on the border? There are thousands and thousands of security people driving around in thousands of $40,000 vehicles already. We lost the war on drugs in this country a long time ago and the Mexicans will have no better luck. I can't offer any wonderful solutions, but the war on drugs --- no matter in what country it is waged, does not seem to work.

    Also, in the last several weeks about 70 people have been murdered in this drug violence in Mexico. Perspective: That's about 7 to 8 weeks worth on the South side of Chicago, or Baltimore. We can't seem to stop violence, why do we expect the Mexicans to be able to stop this stuff?
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  12. #41
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    The border can be effectively controlled, with authorized access. Most are unwilling to do what is required to accomplish it. Americans don't have the stomach for it. If East Germany was able to severely limit illegal crossings for decades, any country can.

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctr View Post
    The border can be effectively controlled, with authorized access. Most are unwilling to do what is required to accomplish it. Americans don't have the stomach for it. If East Germany was able to severely limit illegal crossings for decades, any country can.
    Aw..if I remember my history it was to also keep their citizens in involuntarily. Great example.

  14. #43
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    We need to mine the border and allow border patrol to shoot first, ask questions later. The "punishment" for crossing is some hot meals and a free ride back across... It's not a deterrent, its like a cap on a soda sweepstakes saying 'thanks try again' and nothing even remotely bad happens to the illegals.

    Legalization and taxing (similar to that of tobacco and alcohol) of some drugs will greatly reduce the cartels ability to generate revenue. It will also ease pressure on our corrections systems, lower drug related crime, raise local tax revenues, and take money out of the pockets of gangs. Win. Win. Win. Win. Win.
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  15. #44
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    The importation of illegal drugs is one part of the border problem. You also have illegal aliens.I personally believe that the border could be secured, it wouldn't be pretty but it could and should be done. Whatever the outcome of a secured border I don't know, but it has to be better than what goes on now.

  16. #45
    Member Array Metalman's Avatar
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    To give an example of how inventive drug traffickers can be and to help develop the point that the border can not be secured: I was in Nuevo Laredo last November working with some Mexican engineers. They took me behind the building (which nearly backs up to the 20 foot border fence) to show me where a few days before they watched packages of (assumed) drugs getting launched over the fence. A semi with a flat bed with side and a tarp backed up to the fence. The tarp was rolled back and a catapult was exposed. In a matter of a few minutes several large heavy packages were launched over the fence to a waiting truck on the US side. The tarp was put back in place and the truck pulled away. The bad guys also put a couple of bullet holes in the factory where my friends were watching from, just to let them know --- you saw nothing.

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