Fla undercover cop shoots kid at family business

This is a discussion on Fla undercover cop shoots kid at family business within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Hopyard Maybe we are just talking past each other. If I went to my place of business and found a stranger sitting ...

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Thread: Fla undercover cop shoots kid at family business

  1. #31
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Maybe we are just talking past each other. If I went to my place of business and found a stranger sitting in a car, perhaps posing as an officer, if I was stupid and challenged him instead of retreating to call 911, and if on challenging he got out of his car to confront me, and shot me, I don't think we would be praising the shooter.

    Spuk is correct that this is how righteous work goes, but truly righteous work would involve the utmost in making sure
    a misunderstanding doesn't happen. Like, maybe, let the owner know you are going to have an unmarked car in his
    parking lot? Not hard to do.

    So to reuse the phrase being bandied about with regard to the stuff we don't talk about; it didn't need to happen.
    Hopy, I think we are talking past one another. In my what if, we have to civilians. If it went down as described in the article, the person ( the cop in this instance) would be praised for a good SD shoot on boards all over the place. That being said, the officer had no duty to inform anyone, he was doing his job. I will agree that it is unfortunate that someone died, but he picked a fight that he should not have. I have to side with the officer in this one.

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Hard to say, but a few things will help them determine some things...... where was his body to his truck, what was his blood alcohol content, at what distance were the shots (really close or further away), and where the bullets hit the person (front , back , side, etc.). That would at least give them some 'indicators'.

    There could be various versions of this one. The Officer's good record says a lot.
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  4. #33
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Hopy, I think we are talking past one another. In my what if, we have to civilians. If it went down as described in the article, the person ( the cop in this instance) would be praised for a good SD shoot on boards all over the place. That being said, the officer had no duty to inform anyone, he was doing his job. I will agree that it is unfortunate that someone died, but he picked a fight that he should not have. I have to side with the officer in this one.
    I am in no way lauding the officer in this shooting. But having been in his shoes I can understand how this could happen. As with the other shooting I lean towards this being the perfect S#!^ storm, and the subsiquent tragedy. Hopefully more of the facts will be made public. Hopefully the Palm Beach Sheriff's office will learn from this incident, and make some changes to their technique, and methods of operation.
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  5. #34
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Sounds like alcohol/drugs probably influenced the victim into acting stupid,How many people have ever tried to reason with a drunk,been in way too many situations where alcohol turns "good" people into uncooperative idiots,and they seem to think that since in their mind I'm gonna get a phone out of my truck and call a real cop,that behaviour/action can get them shot by a Cop that feels he is going for a weapon.
    Too bad there weren't external cameras to capture the altercation as it happened.I've seen it go both ways where a video has exonerated an LEO and backed his story,but I've also seen where a video proved that an LEO was not being truthful
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  6. #35
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    After re-reading the article and reading the comments in this thread, I still can't shake the feeling that there is more to this story. Even with Adams being drunk, I have a hard time going from 'identification as an undercover cop', to the alleged choking, to getting shot for going for a phone. For one thing, I have an easier time understanding how it would have caused a shooting while they were having a physical altercation, not after. Second, I keep drawing a mental disconnect on the being drunk enough to become stupid, yet be able to get a physical drop on a trained LEO who would have been on high alert. Third, without details of the ballistics, I wonder about the physical actions of allegedly going for a phone versus a weapon. I hate to say it, but it could be an easy, yet plausible excuse to cover up wrong doing. I realize that even for civilians, it isn't necessary for them to actually have a weapon, instead it is generally required that a reasonable person would have thought that they were going for a weapon, and yes there is walking a fine line, but would the deputy, presumably who has a weapon drawn and has a bead on Adams be able to see if he was really going for a weapon before firing?

    With respect to the comments in this thread that say if this had been a civilian we would be issuing commendations for a job well done, I again, have to question that, in that it seems like a guy was shot after he stopped being a threat.
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  7. #36
    sgb
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    VIP Member Array sgb's Avatar
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    Anyone can buy a T shirt and a Badge over the internet these days. While the deputies story sounds plausible it begs to question bad judgement all the way around.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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  8. #37
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgb View Post
    Anyone can buy a T shirt and a Badge over the internet these days. While the deputies story sounds plausible it begs to question bad judgement all the way around.
    Exactly what I was thinking. I hate to say it but it takes more than a badge and a gun to get me to comply. Frankly, I'm not getting close enough to you so I can try to check out your badge. If your uniformed and in a squad car that's a different story. On the flip side, the first thing I am going to do is call 911 and inform the person that I am doing so to check his identity. Hopefully the cop is smart enough and understands that he's plain clothes and I'm simply watching out for my own safety and allows me to do so uninterrupted. If the 911 operator confirms the identity of the officer THEN I will comply. But this paints a VERY dangerous scenario. If during that time he attempts to physically restrain me there is def going to be a fight going down.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

  9. #38
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    For a whole host of reasons, on the rare occasion I do drink anymore I do it at home. An occasional beer on the golf course might be about it away from home...and most of the time here it is too hot to even do that. I could have saved myself a lot of grief in my younger days if I had come to this conclusion a lot sooner.
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  10. #39
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    In one of his books, I read two related pieces of advice from Massad Ayoob. I have paraphrased them below:
    1 - like anything else, if you are going to drink, do it responsibily.
    2 - stay the hell out of bars.

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    If this was civilian on civilian we would be praising the shooter. It would appear that folks have a deep down disliking for law enforcement. Get over it. IMO the officer was right in this shoot....
    Don't mistake mistrust for dislike.

    Michael
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  12. #41
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    If this was civilian on civilian we would be praising the shooter. It would appear that folks have a deep down disliking for law enforcement. Get over it. IMO the officer was right in this shoot....
    Sorry but I don't think that's a accurate statement. I would venture to suggest that the majority of CCW carriers would not have approached the "suspect" in the first place. It's not really a fair comparison.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

  13. #42
    Senior Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    Officers routinely snag wifi from my office complex. They are in marked cars and in uniform. Sometimes, I work all hours of the night depending on a deadline. Sometimes they are doing some late-night surfing. Not questioning their actions, it's fine with me. My complex is usually very empty at night.

    I can tell you with 100% certainty, that if I was approached by anyone in plainclothes after driving up to my office, my hand would be on my hip, my palm would be outstretched, and I would be telling the person not to take another step towards me. I wouldn't care if they had a badge, and I wouldn't care if they were wearing a black t-shirt that said SWAT across the front. If they proceeded to advance, I would potentially draw on them.

    I'm not sure what to think given the circumstances, but the plainclothes officer probably shouldn't have been so aggressive as to think this guy was a perp. Couldn't he have waited to see if the guy had keys to unlock the door? That would be a pretty good indication of whether or not he was robbing the place. Or perhaps wait to see if he started dragging tangible items out of the place even if he did have keys? The whole story seems a little fishy.
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  14. #43
    Ex Member Array FireStar M40's Avatar
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    It Depends On Circumstances..

    BarStoolGuru said in part..

    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    When your order to stop what you’re doing..... Do it.
    Not arguing the point, but want to point out that some medical conditions/disabilities may prevent one from being able to do so. (Comment is nothing more nor nothing less.)

    FireStar M40

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