Chris Hayes: I'm 'Uncomfortable' Calling Fallen Military 'Heroes' - Page 3

Chris Hayes: I'm 'Uncomfortable' Calling Fallen Military 'Heroes'

This is a discussion on Chris Hayes: I'm 'Uncomfortable' Calling Fallen Military 'Heroes' within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; He states that the term with it's images of valor is "rhetorically proximate to justifications for more war". This little twit just wants a more ...

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Thread: Chris Hayes: I'm 'Uncomfortable' Calling Fallen Military 'Heroes'

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    He states that the term with it's images of valor is "rhetorically proximate to justifications for more war". This little twit just wants a more politically correct name to be used for a fallen soldier. My God, is there no end to it?
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inspector71 View Post
    I guess time has passed me by. I don't analyze each battlefield death to determine who died nobly and who went out screaming and crying for their momma with their body parts laying on the ground beside them.
    I don't either. And it shouldn't (and wouldn't for me) make a difference even if I could analyze every death. Like I said, I honor all of our service members who have died because they have done an honorable thing in their willingness to serve. Even if they did die cowardly or via and accident it doesn't make them any less worthy of honor for their service. It doesn't make their service null and void. It doesn't cheapen it either.

    The only question here (and posed by the link) is how we define a hero.

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    I nominate Chris Hayes, to be our top negotiator with the Taliban...... he should go by himself, all alone, and meet with them personally.... to discuss all negotiations for peace. This would be "his chance" to show his stuff, what he's made of , and to find out if the rest of the world, and in particular the Taliban, are really all for peace.... and proving to the world that any war with the Taliban is unnecessary.

    Jump in there Chris, here's your BIG chance.........

    There is a time when you either need to "put up " , or "shut up".
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inspector71 View Post
    You say you are a big supporter of the military but I'm sorry, the paragraph I have high lighted does not indicate that at all to me.
    You'd be surprised.

  5. #35
    Member Array Sarisataka's Avatar
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    Some years back I watched a Viet Nam movie (Platoon? Hamburger Hill?). The soldiers were talking about draft dodgers going to Canada... when one soldier expressed admiration for those who didn't want to fight, the Sergeant replied IIRC "Not me. Just show up. You don't want to hurt the yellow man, fine. Shoot in the air or don't shoot at all. Just show up."

    Just showing up is what makes every member of our military (and public safety professions) Heroes.
    To paraphrase- Some will give all; All will give some.

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  6. #36
    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisataka View Post
    Some years back I watched a Viet Nam movie (Platoon? Hamburger Hill?). The soldiers were talking about draft dodgers going to Canada... when one soldier expressed admiration for those who didn't want to fight, the Sergeant replied IIRC "Not me. Just show up. You don't want to hurt the yellow man, fine. Shoot in the air or don't shoot at all. Just show up."

    Just showing up is what makes every member of our military (and public safety professions) Heroes.
    To paraphrase- Some will give all; All will give some.

    This makes no sense.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisataka View Post
    Just showing up is what makes every member of our military (and public safety professions) Heroes.
    Again, this, to me, seems like its setting the bar EXCEPTIONALLY low.

    I call the police because someone is in my home trying to rape me. The police officer shows up and sits in my driveway while I'm upstairs being raped and I'm supposed to call him a hero?

    Or, let's look at the firefighter called to a burning residence. He shows up and a Mom is holding her baby out of the second story window with smoke and fire licking at her back. He waits beside his rig and he's a hero because he showed up? I don't think so.

    An EMT or paramedic is called for someone having a heart attack. They get there and someone is laying in the floor unconscious in a reversible heart arrhythmia. But they just sit there and don't do CPR or attach an AED.. but, hey, they showed up! The heroes of the day!

    So, on that note, a service member can show up and go through the motions and sit there with his rifle being dead weight and be considered a hero?

    Now, are there reasons they don't go in... maybe.. maybe some darned good reasons. They can't be looked down upon for making decisions regarding their own safety or the safety of their partners but blanketly calling them heroes?

    Ehhhh... then what does it mean when you actually DO something? Nothing?

    Heroism (again, to me and my dictionary) requires action. It requires courage, outstanding acts, something more than just being at the right (or wrong) place at the right (or wrong) time.

  8. #38
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    I gather my response will most likely be not well accepted but here it is.

    As a veteran I do not agree with his statement very much. However as a veteran he has that right due to the Constitution and from all the veterans that served and from those that are no longer with us. He expressed his opinion and that is all it was. Isn't bashing him and calling him names a direct contradiction to the the 1st amendment. (I know the posts will come to say the 1st amendment gives us the right to bash). No one has to like/agree with what he said but shouldn't we be the ones to let him/others say their peace, defend it and move on. I do not condone someone burning the American flag but I defend their right to do so. That means "biting my tongue" if I happen upon it.

    As to defining a "hero/heroine" I think it really is more a personal thing within each of us. Some people give hero/heroine status rather loosely such as sports figures, movie stars, politicians, etc. Referencing 9/11 there are those that say the responders were not heroes/heroines since they were doing the job they were paid to do. Strange thing is most heroes/heroines will always say I am not a hero/heroine. Personally my fellow fallen veterans are all heroes/heroines in my book. In fact anyone that has/is served are heroes/heroines.


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  9. #39
    Member Array Sarisataka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    This makes no sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    Heroism (again, to me and my dictionary) requires action. It requires courage, outstanding acts, something more than just being at the right (or wrong) place at the right (or wrong) time.
    The context of the scene/statement is that the person who 'show up' puts themselves at risk. The soldier may take a non-combatant role such as medic. The policeman may not single handed take on an armed gang but will chase the bad guy into the dark alley. The fireman may not charge into a burning warehouse that is likely empty but enters the burning building when if people may be at risk.

    It is willingly accepting the shared risk, rather than sitting on the sidelines proclaiming what others should be doing. Or running from risk while criticizing those who go towards it.

    I hope this helps clarify my post.
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  10. #40
    Member Array thehustleman's Avatar
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    That's a crying shame.

    Although technically the military isn't always fighting for our freedom, sometimes they are just doing the dirty work for our president. We are already free

    But nevertheless, our military men serving ARE heros!



    *swyped from the evo so excuse any typos*
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisataka View Post
    It is willingly accepting the shared risk, rather than sitting on the sidelines proclaiming what others should be doing. Or running from risk while criticizing those who go towards it.

    I hope this helps clarify my post.
    It does.

    And I can understand where you're coming from.

    Like I said before, it all comes down to the personal definition of the word "hero" and how each chooses to apply it.

    The examples you give.. that "willingly accepting the shared risk" I would call honorable but, to me.. personally.. hero still invokes a little more.

    But that's just me.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    It's actually not as bad as you guys make it out to be.
    The HELL it isn't!

    Sorry, and yeah I'm getting heated, but I came home and some buddies didn't. PERIOD. They gave their LIVES in service to their country and asked for nothing in return, not even a little freaking gratitude.

    He can say what he says in front of a TV camera because of the now less than ONE PERCENT of us who strapped on a pair of boots and stood in harm's way at some point in our lives. I'd like to see this jerk-face come to any VFW post on Memorial Day and explain to us his "discomfort" with calling our fallen buddies "heroes."

    JD
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  13. #43
    Member Array Sarisataka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    It does.

    And I can understand where you're coming from.

    Like I said before, it all comes down to the personal definition of the word "hero" and how each chooses to apply it.

    The examples you give.. that "willingly accepting the shared risk" I would call honorable but, to me.. personally.. hero still invokes a little more.

    But that's just me.
    I agree, there are

    heroes 300px-Jointcolors.jpg

    Heroes 09152011-64v.jpg
    and HEROES 3560856061_20a83080d0.jpg 032711_officers_funeral_08_dm_w800_h627_onlineathens.jpg 111808a_01.jpg
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    I don't either. And it shouldn't (and wouldn't for me) make a difference even if I could analyze every death. Like I said, I honor all of our service members who have died because they have done an honorable thing in their willingness to serve. Even if they did die cowardly or via and accident it doesn't make them any less worthy of honor for their service. It doesn't make their service null and void. It doesn't cheapen it either.

    The only question here (and posed by the link) is how we define a hero.
    I have a huge problem with the way the title of hero is so easily given out now days. I do not however believe Mr. Hayes was questioning its use so much as using it as a way to attack how the military is currently being used. He took a cheap shot at those who have died to make a political point.

    Maybe we should discuss further the other subject of what is a hero?
    Is a person a hero simply because of the work they do?

    Michael

  15. #45
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    A high school friend of mine has a son that graduated from college last year after doing a stint in the Marines. He decided to rejoin the Marines and is now serving in Afgoonistan. (two tours already in Iraq) He had other choices, but this is what the brave young man decided to do.

    If these kind of actions are not "heroic", then perhaps I have lost touch with the world. Doing what has to be done without question is a hero. Period.
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