Chris Hayes: I'm 'Uncomfortable' Calling Fallen Military 'Heroes'

This is a discussion on Chris Hayes: I'm 'Uncomfortable' Calling Fallen Military 'Heroes' within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Chris Hayes said,"...obviously there are individual circumstances in which there is genuine, tremendous heroism: hail of gunfire, rescuing fellow soldiers and things like that. But ...

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  1. #61
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Chris Hayes said,"...obviously there are individual circumstances in which there is genuine, tremendous heroism: hail of gunfire, rescuing fellow soldiers and things like that. But it seems to me that we marshal this word in a way that is problematic."

    He made a very narrow definition of the word "hero", so unless his parents did a "tremendous act of heroism: hail of gunfire, rescuing fellow soldiers or things like that", his parents are not as he said "heroic" by his own narrow definition that he used for the military. Here is what he said about them.

    Hayes hails from the Bronx, where his Italian-American mother grew up, the daughter of a delicatessen owner. His father found his way to New York from Chicago via the Jesuits, while studying for the priesthood. While in seminary, his Irish-American father, Roger Hayes, did his first community organizing "for people who had trained with Alinsky," Hayes says with a chuckle. When he was finishing up his degree at Fordham University, Roger Hayes moved into the apartment building where his mother, Geri, lived with her parents, beginning a courtship that prompted the young seminarian to leave the priesthood.

    Today his parents both work for the City of New York: Geri, a former schoolteacher, works for the NYC Department of Education, and Roger, after many years of community organizing, does health advocacy work in East Harlem for the NYC Department of Health. His younger brother is the Nevada state director for Organizing For America, the grassroots group built from the lists of the 2008 Obama campaign.

    "My parents are totally amazing, heroic figures," Hayes says.

    Read more: MSNBC's Anti-Military Anchor Hayes Called His Parents 'Heroic Figures' | NewsBusters.org

    So his father is a organizer trained by Sol Alinsky. Is there any surprise why he is the way he is.
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  3. #62
    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herknav View Post
    Yes, this is what he said. In your post earlier, you tried to make it sound like he was saying that joining the military =/= hero. My point was that he never said anything about joining the military. He specifically spoke of those who had died. Now that you've changed your wording, we are in agreement about what he said.

    Most emphatically, "NO!" Even if I were, this day would not be about me. Why would you even ask such a question?
    You missed both of those points by a wide margin.

  4. #63
    Member Array 1911srule's Avatar
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    There is a good side to comments like this coming out. It clarifies exactly who the enemy really is...
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    RIP Jeff Cooper

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911srule View Post
    There is a good side to comments like this coming out. It clarifies exactly who the enemy really is...

    As per Anne Coulter- " “Chris Hayes ‘Uncomfortable’ Calling Fallen Military ‘Heroes’ – Marines respond by protecting his right to menstruate.”.....lol
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  6. #65
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Ill tell my cousins hubby that next time I see him...O' wait I cant do that, he was hit with an IED. With all due respect JD I find your opinion ridiculous. IMO he is a hero. He did something most of us have never done and never will due.

    That's your opinion and you're free to have it, personally I've met to many jacktards in uniform that despite voluntary entry into the service and requesting "infantry" as an MOS whine and complain about how "I didn't sign up for this" while in Iraq.


    I've met too many active duty and reserve soldiers that joined for nothing more than a paycheck and some benefits, yes some of them have died in theater, but they were willing to gamble with their lives for a pay check and they lost.

    I always got a kick out of the first group mentioned, I always had to laugh at them and ask them what they meant to sign up for? Marine Corps Band? I guess the recruiter must have switched paperwork on them and forced them into being a rifleman.

  7. #66
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    That's your opinion and you're free to have it, personally I've met to many jacktards in uniform that despite voluntary entry into the service and requesting "infantry" as an MOS whine and complain about how "I didn't sign up for this" while in Iraq.


    I've met too many active duty and reserve soldiers that joined for nothing more than a paycheck and some benefits, yes some of them have died in theater, but they were willing to gamble with their lives for a pay check and they lost.

    I always got a kick out of the first group mentioned, I always had to laugh at them and ask them what they meant to sign up for? Marine Corps Band? I guess the recruiter must have switched paperwork on them and forced them into being a rifleman.
    All of that said. Does it lesson the cause or the fight that they are fighting? Do we think less of a LEO or a firefighter with the same type attitude you described? We both know there out there. Does it make them less a hero, because they need a pay check and the military has something to offer. I understand the Jacktard comment, they are out there. However, they are still fighting and in the end could loose it all...
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    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  8. #67
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    All of that said. Does it lesson the cause or the fight that they are fighting? Do we think less of a LEO or a firefighter with the same type attitude you described? We both know there out there. Does it make them less a hero, because they need a pay check and the military has something to offer. I understand the Jacktard comment, they are out there. However, they are still fighting and in the end could loose it all...
    Their presence there itself does not = heroism in my book, same as any local LE etc. Yes I've met that type in law enforcement that are just looking for a pension etc. Now I'm not saying they are incapable of doing heroic things, but simply "being there" does not fit the bill for heroism in my opinion as their presence there in the fist place is self serving.

  9. #68
    Senior Member Array Herknav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    You missed both of those points by a wide margin.
    On the first point, I really don't care what anybody's opinion is on this, but I will ask you to speak from a point of truth. I felt that your first post didn't really reflect what he actually said. You corrected that, so I was done.

    As for your second point, I still have no idea why me making my first point led you there. Please help me out on that one.

    ETA--Disregard. I re-read it, and now I realize it was still part of your hypothetical as opposed to a new, unrelated question.
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  10. #69
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Hummmmm, I grew up around a LOT of military people & the military, since my father was a Bird Colonel. I knew people from Privates up to 3 Star Generals. And, most of them were in WWII. As I got older, none talked about what they did, but they did inform me of things that others in this group did .... during WWII.

    A man... who treated everyone great with respect, and even though I was a kid didn't just dismiss me. He was 'fun' to be around ..... life of the party.... he had a great sense of humor, told great jokes, etc. And, he gave me some 'great' advice as I was growing up. He lived his life in the Army and loved this country. He was of Lebonese descent.

    When the honor guard notified his wife at the last minute that they honor guard could not be there @ his funeral (we were there waiting for them when we found out), due to a snow storm ...... I was avid ... with some of the retired Generals there that he was NOT going without the ceremony. If any man deserved it , he did. There were numerous retired personnel (older men) there, from Generals down to Sgts. It started a stir, and my father came over and told me ... "you started this, and we need one more for handling the coffin and flag folding & you are it " ... My brother rushed by (an active Colonel at the time) and commented " what the hell did you do.... I'm getting 'instructed' to get some volunteers (riflemen) from the unit to come up here RIGHT now in full dress.... do you know how hard that is going to be " . He wasn't happy.

    The funeral at the graveyard was delayed for 1 hour, and within 1 hour ... riflemen, trumpeter (not a recorder), etc. were all there and ready. Men dropped everything and came, because " it was for Sam".

    I was the only "non-military" person or retired person involved in the ceremony, and it was my honor. I was very proud to do it for this man. I had seen these ceremonies many many times, I knew them well. The other people involved in handling the coffin and the flag folding were all retired Generals and 1 Colonel.

    This man was very humble, never ever saying anything about himself. It was always about doing something for someone else. And, he had dedicated his life to serving in the military and protecting this nation... and he was very very serious about that. However, others had told me about him ..... and the things he did in WWII..... their unit was the first to discover and free a concentration camp, and they had told about the one river being "totally red" due to amount of people that had died in a battle near there, they were attached to the 3rd Army for a 100 mile march to Bastogne (being tired, cold, frozen and just have fought several battles) to rescue them.... because they were surrounded but refused to surrender to the Germans.

    One example; their 'squad' was on a patrol... in a forest area and came upon an American soldier who was hanging from the limb of a tree. He had been skinned alive...... tortured, by the German's.... to give them information about American troop locations, and then left. He died shortly afterwards.

    Sam..... was irate and wanted to find the Germans who did this, although the others wanted to go report it... Sam charged on ahead. Not far away, he located a group of about 50 Germans who they were sure the one's that had hung the soldier in the tree and skinned him alive.... there were 8 of them in the squad at that point. The men who were there told me, there was no holding Sam back..... he didn't care if he died or not.... and he wasn't waiting for us to go get more support..... he jumped up and charged into the group of German's ... intent to shoot everyone of them by himself if he had to or before they killed him. "So, we had no choice... but to follow him, we weren't going to leave him fighting them alone".
    Two thirds of the German's were killed and the other 1/3 surrendered , raising their hands and dropping their weapons. And this one General said.... " I think we only shot a few of them, I think Sam shot most of the German's there that day" . They said .... jumping in to protect his fellow soldiers with no regard to his personal safety is how he got the nickname " Crazy Sam" . " in a battle, you wanted Sam to be the one who had your back " .

    Now, was he a hero ? To me, and to all of the men standing there that day at his funeral..... who put on one of the best funeral and flag ceremonies I've ever seen, was a testiment that most of them considered him one.

    After the funeral was over, I was asked to come over to a large group of retired Generals, officers, Sgts, etc standing there.
    I asked why, and they wouldn't tell me . When I got over there.... one General said .. that they all wanted to 'thank me' for doing what I did and standing up for Sam, as it made them remember.... how important it really was to do that for Sam, a man who always had given his all for them and his country. My response was , "I did nothing, Sam ... is the one that EARNED all of the respect of everyone standing there.... I had nothing to do with it " . However, each one demanded... to shake my hand, and I told them.... I'll do it "for Sam".

    Now... Chris Hayes..... stand up , and tell me .... that this man was not a hero to his country and to his fellow soldiers....

    I don't care in what capacity someone has served. Any person who serves the country in the military, deserves the respect for doing so.
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  11. #70
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    Their presence there itself does not = heroism in my book, same as any local LE etc. Yes I've met that type in law enforcement that are just looking for a pension etc. Now I'm not saying they are incapable of doing heroic things, but simply "being there" does not fit the bill for heroism in my opinion as their presence there in the fist place is self serving.
    The article was about fallen soldiers. IMO if they are there to take one for our country, then there is a degree of heroism. Im not sure about self serving, but I can understand your point...
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  12. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51 View Post
    Do you really think those terms were meant towards YOU or anyone else on this forum??? THEY WERE NOT!!! They were meant for Chris Hayes and no one else. Your opinion is your opinion and I have no problem with that. You are taking this too personally.
    Naw.. I'm not taking it too personally. I know where I stand in my heart on the matter. There are those who think "littler" of me for what I have said and will label me anti-military, whatever.

    Words.. Words.. Words.. Words words words, blah, blah, blah...

    So many people getting so twisted up about what someone said and his words and how he categorized or labelled or whatever. Before yesterday I'd never heard or cared about the name Chris Hayes and.. guess what?... I still don't. He has his right to his opinion and I don't think it matters one way or the other what he thinks.

    So he said something.. big deal. We all say a lot of stuff... we spew out our pedantic, pathetic words, splitting hairs over meanings and personal application when there are those out there who are DOING! Their actions are blowing our words out of the water and laying void whatever I or Chris Hayes or whoever has to say about any of this.

    It's actions that make or break a man or woman, not words.

    You all can waste as much time as you want being angry about what someone said. I'm going to go remember our honorable fallen and what they've done and stop wasting my time on some nobody's words and how people feel about them.

  13. #72
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    I, too, think that the word "hero" is used far too often in today's society. It's overuse is making it cheap. But then again... words are cheap.
    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    There is an outstanding number of true military heroes that have fought and died (and even lived) while performing courageous, outstanding and noble acts.
    Not to long ago I read about a Marine who left his helmet off to go and secure a ladder on a truck during a state-side pre-deployment workup. The ladder fell, crushed his skull and he died. Never saw a single day of combat. Never fired a single shot in defense of our nation.

    Had he been working in a factory and his story were told he'd be just an average shmuck, labelled an idiot for not wearing his helmet.. he should have known better and that's why he's dead. But because he happened to die while under contract to the US Marine Corps suddenly he's a HERO!!!! who died for his country!!
    I do agree that the word 'hero' has been cheapened, mostly by those who use if for their own personal gain. I also understand that by the true Webster's definition, the given use of the word doesn't fit.

    Hearing the word used ubiquitiously during the last decade, I've also wondered whether the term fits all who have died while serving - your example being one such case to ponder. My thoughts of late have centered around the fact that those who died did so while serving their country, maybe not as valiantly as some, but serving nonetheless. They weren't just working a factory job in the private sector, but doing a job for their country.

    I wouldn't think that they did it for the money or the benefits. They may have enlisted as it was their only way to set themselves straight after a wasted youth. For whatever their reasons, they did choose to serve and whatever duties they performed were in the support of & service to their country.

    For me, the word hero is given its true meaning by those who use it to convey gratitude, not by those who use it for gain. That's just my take at present.


    Thank you for sharing, Lima!
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    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  14. #73
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Were those schoolmates of mine in high school who got caught stealing cars and given the choice of joining the Army and going to Nam
    or staying stateside and going to the State Pen heroes?
    Is the Cop in the next town over from me who transfers all calls to the Sheriff's Department so that he can stay on traffic patrol and write tickets a hero?

    No a job does not make you a hero. Only actions make you a hero. And no, simply doing the job you signed up for does not make you a hero. Its those who go beyond what the others in their position do that are the heroes.
    True heroes are rare. Thats why they have always been held in such high esteem.

    ADDED: or staying stateside and going to the State Pen

    Michael
    Last edited by mlr1m; May 28th, 2012 at 09:20 PM. Reason: I made an oopsie
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  15. #74
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    This guy deserves to stand in front of our troops! What a douche!
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  16. #75
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Here is a article that explains little clearer how many people feel about this "comment" made by Chris Hayes.

    by Kurt Schlichter
    Just in time for Memorial Day, some MSNBC drone named Chris Hayes has lit up the internet with his confession that dead American troops don’t quite measure up to his exacting standards for what qualifies as a “hero.” Memo to Chris: they are heroes, and you don’t get a vote.

    Though he may be shocked to hear it, America’s fighting men and women don’t care whether Chris Hayes considers their fallen comrades heroes or not. First, there’s the practical matter that almost no one – in uniform or out – watches MSNBC or the roster of progressive meat puppets that fill the short stretches between endless reruns of "Lock Up."

    Care about Chris Hayes’s comfort level? They don’t even know this leftist twerp exists.

    But on a deeper level, our troops don’t do what they do to impress the likes of Chris Hayes – though he is perfectly willing to make his living in the shadow of their sacrifice. In the scheme of things, Chris Hayes’s views are important only as an object lesson in what our progressive elites really think about our military. And it’s not much.

    So what did he say? Mediaite provides a transcript of his weaselly insights:

    I feel… uncomfortable, about the word because it seems to me that it is so rhetorically proximate to justifications for more war. Um, and, I don’t want to obviously desecrate or disrespect memory of anyone that’s fallen, and obviously there are individual circumstances in which there is genuine, tremendous heroism, you know, hail of gunfire, rescuing fellow soldiers, and things like that. But it seems to me that we marshal this word in a way that is problematic. But maybe I’m wrong about that.

    No maybe about it, Chris. I love the “rhetorically proximate to justifications for more war” part – he sounds like one of my commie grad students trying to impress credulous freshman girls after a choom session in the quad. But Chris Hayes seems to cultivate a more hipster vibe – no ponytail for him, but I’ll bet that lurking under his blazer is a really cool tat that signals to the world he’s edgy.

    And what’s edgier than taking on our troops? After all, at least until the next election, they are “our” troops. Even most progressives – quite willing to diss our troops before while Bush was president -- are on message these days. After all, it’s kinda hard to shout about warmongering, baby-killing imperialists when the guy commanding them is your own guy.

    I greatly enjoy watching progressives seethe as they are forced, for the sake of appearances, to pretend to support our troops. You know it’s killing them.

    But it’s the progressives’ own doing – their sickening performance following the Vietnam War, when they figuratively and literally spit on our troops – so disgusted decent Americans of all political stripes that to do anything but treat our troops with the utmost respect is to draw near-universal contempt and scorn from across the mainstream political spectrum.

    So, the real problem for Chris Hayes is that he actually said what he thinks. He thinks our soldiers are suckers and fools at best, brutal sociopaths at worst. At a minimum, he feels that honoring those who died for this country might encourage people to see that actually defending our country is a good thing. He’s not quite ready to make that leap; after all, most progressives are ambivalent about this whole “America” concept, if not actively opposed to it.

    Patriotism may be the last refuge of a scoundrel, but when progressives attempt it, it’s comedy gold.

    So, like so many other useless progressive fops who glide from cocktail party to panel discussion, Chris Hayes continues to push his progressive vision of collectivist serfdom from behind the unbreachable wall of American warriors. He has not stood with them and, in fact, is unworthy of doing so. He is a parasite taking sustenance from the exertions of better men and women.

    And even if those men and women know who Chris Hayes is, they wouldn’t give a half damn about what he thinks. They don’t do it for him.

    Chris Hayes Uncomfortable with Calling Troops 'Heroes;' Quite Comfortable Exercising Rights They Protect


    This little man is not important....what he represents is. This is the kind attitude is what I have seen in motion since the late 60s/early70s. When the SDS and Weathermen started this "movement" to change this country from "within". At that time I thought it was just a bunch of hippies, but they were and are much better organized that thought. Through education....media...and "organizers" they have spread this propaganda far and wide giving it a air of legitimacy. Try looking at the writings of Sol Alensky and see what the plan is and if it is what most want for our Country. Is Chris Hayes and what he spews important? Not in the scheme of things, but he is a symptom of a much larger disease. One that I pray starts being cured in the voting booth on November of this year.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
    Susan B. Anthony
    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
    Robert Heinlein

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