A question of etiquette

A question of etiquette

This is a discussion on A question of etiquette within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; It's rare that I run on a treadmill but humidity here is already through the roof so I decided to run indoors instead of running ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    A question of etiquette

    It's rare that I run on a treadmill but humidity here is already through the roof so I decided to run indoors instead of running outside. I have to admit that one of the bonuses of treadmill running is that I occasionally here a interesting conversation. Today was a debate between two gentleman about saluting the flag. I'm assuming this came up because of memorial day. The overall just of it was that one guy was upset that all the people at the memorial day parades would be saluting the flag even though they never served in the military. The other guy was arguing that it didn't matter if you served or not, everyone should salute the flag. I was raised that it is disrespectful to salute the flag if you did not serve in the military as the salute is a military gesture. You should however always stand when a flag is being presented. What's your take on it?
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...


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    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    If you are a civilian you put your hand over your heart and if you are a military man or woman you salute

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    Member Array Beretta96's Avatar
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    We would also salute as scouts in uniform.
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    Member Array pfries's Avatar
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    I only saluted when in uniform, now I cover my heart for more reasons than one.
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    Member Array Maxwell47's Avatar
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    As a civilian I was always taught to place my hand over my heart. Oh, and remove any hat you may be wearing.
    I never let schooling interfere with my education. Mark Twain

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    If you are a civilian you put your hand over your heart and if you are a military man or woman you salute
    That's a good standard to go by. Thing is.....if you are now a civilian and not in uniform, a salute is not necessary. It may be habit although. Depends on the presentation. During a parade, you should at least stand and take off your hat no matter what. Hand over heart is for the pledge of allegiance and the Star Spangled Banner, a salute is for the raising of the flag or it's passing displayed by the color guard. As any American you show your respect any way you feel fit to do so depending on the presentation barring any religious preferences. If you've never served in the military and choose to salute the flag upon presentation, then that's your choice. Why would anyone be upset at another for the way in which they choose to honor and respect the flag and what it stands for? Your etiquette is in your heart and mind at this point....not up to anyone else to decide.
    If you want to consult Wikipedia, then by all means................
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    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    We saluted at Fire Department funerals when in uniform, but now as "civilian" it is stand with hand over heart. Seems to be a good rule for me. I won't quibble with anyone's form of honoring our flag and Country...as long as it is honored. To each their own.
    DontTreadOnI likes this.
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    Senior Member Array Herknav's Avatar
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    Active military out of uniform are supposed to stand at attention. However, if in civvies, I will admit to putting my hand over my heart just like any normal American.
    I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth.--Steve McQueen

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herknav View Post
    Active military out of uniform are supposed to stand at attention. However, if in civvies, I will admit to putting my hand over my heart just like any normal American.
    Did that change? I have been out for 5 years and it was that when the flag passes when in uniform you stand at attentions and salute. When not in uniform you stand at attention and put your hand over your heart. Same protocol as a civilian.

    As far as the OP. I don't care if someone is saluting the flag if they did not serve. If that guy was upset about it he is an idiot. At least they are not burning it. I swear, some folks can find the most innocent thing to get thier dander up.
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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Military, fire, police, etc(any uniformed entity in the service of his/her community, state, or nation)....... In uniform and covered (outdoors wearing your uniform hat), salute. Otherwise, in civilian colthes, stand at attention, hand over your heart.

    Now, if some young'un or an adult salutes the colors, that's just fine. It may or may not be a good time to educate them on the 'proper' way to render honors to our national ensign, but the simple jesture of 'them' showing respect makes me feel better than when I see hats remaining on a head and/or a complete disregard for the flag in general......... oh well, I fought for them too.

    Dosn't mean I won't let 'em know what I think of their actions either......

    Your right suntzu
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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldshellback View Post
    Military, fire, police, etc(any uniformed entity in the service of his/her community, state, or nation)....... In uniform and covered (outdoors wearing your uniform hat), salute. Otherwise, in civilian colthes, stand at attention, hand over your heart.

    Now, if some young'un or an adult salutes the colors, that's just fine. It may or may not be a good time to educate them on the 'proper' way to render honors to our national ensign, but the simple jesture of 'them' showing respect makes me feel better than when I see hats remaining on a head and/or a complete disregard for the flag in general......... oh well, I fought for them too.

    Dosn't mean I won't let 'em know what I think of their actions either......

    Your right suntzu
    I can see why Herknav is confused LOL. (unless they did change the protocol). He is a C-130 navigator. Know how many times the AF on MC-130's tried to drop us early or late on CARP drop zones LOL. At least MFF we did our own release point.
    goldshellback likes this.

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    Senior Member Array Herknav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Did that change? I have been out for 5 years and it was that when the flag passes when in uniform you stand at attentions and salute.
    Correct. I never said differently.

    When not in uniform you stand at attention and put your hand over your heart. Same protocol as a civilian.
    That's not what I was taught during Bush the Elder's term in office. We were taught to stand at attention.
    I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth.--Steve McQueen

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    Etiquette calls for civilians and non-veterans to stand and place the hand over the heart. Military/Police/Firefighters stand and give the military salute. Military in civilian clothes and veterans salute in either fashion.
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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    If you are a civilian you put your hand over your heart and if you are a military man or woman you salute
    This is what I was taught in elementary school. We were also taught how to fold a flag. Every day at the end of school tow kids were selected to lower the flag and fold it. I would bet that flag etiquette is no longer taught as it might be considered not PC.

    Michael

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    Senior Member Array Herknav's Avatar
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    It appears I was trained incorrectly. I'm ashamed that it took me that long to realize it. Thanks for pointing it out.

    Having said that, I find nothing in US Title Code 4, Chapter 1, Section 9 that addresses police or firefighters as a separate class of people. Do you have a reference?
    I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth.--Steve McQueen

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