Stolen Valor Act is Struck Down by Supreme Court

This is a discussion on Stolen Valor Act is Struck Down by Supreme Court within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Hey, this is a signifcant win for the First Amendment! Advertising would be impossible without this acknowledgement that you can pretty much say whatever you ...

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Thread: Stolen Valor Act is Struck Down by Supreme Court

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array DoctorBob's Avatar
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    Hey, this is a signifcant win for the First Amendment! Advertising would be impossible without this acknowledgement that you can pretty much say whatever you want short of shouting, "Fire" in a crowded theater. If we demanded 'truth' for every public statement, politicians would have nothing to say.

    I think you should look at this decision as the equivalent of a very positive 2A decision. If the SCOTUS believes in the constitution on 1A then it is likely that 2A (et al.) would get the same courtesy. That is, an attempt to knock down rights under 2A would be shot down (sorry about the pun) as fast and decidedly as this dopey law that said you couldn't lie about something. As a corollary, it means that you should check what people say before you decide to believe it...

    The decision put no new limits on the prosecution of fraud, perjury, libel or slander.
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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weeg View Post
    I wonder though...so now, what happens to the liar who embellishes himself and uses said embellishment to get grants, funding, job, etc.?

    ... this law being struck down is now going to create a whole legion of 'self appointed war heroes'.
    I'd think that to the extent due diligence unearths such lies now, due diligence will continue to unearth such lies. And such liars will be known as such. Little different from now. Material fraud is still material fraud. Disgust and anger aside ... If each and every subject of 'interest' were to be made explicit in the criminal code, we'd end up with ten thousand and one different statutes dictating exactly which lies are to be criminalized.
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  4. #48
    Member Array gobbly's Avatar
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    Apparently, you can legally lie about being a veteran who has received military honors, now. I'm not sure how this is any different than lying about being professionally licensed, a doctor, active military, or LEO. This is absurd and a slap in the face to veterans and soldiers in arms, everywhere. Anyways, I guess it is OK to lie about military service to get a firearm/ammo discount, too. Not that I would... Just wanted this thread to be firearm related.
    A military honor is not a licensing issue, you can't compare the two. And nothing about this changes the fact that if you lie on a job application, you can be terminated and the company could take legal action against you. It's just not a crime. The state can't charge you with anything for doing it, but that doesn't prevent legal action against people who lie, it just changes who would be accusing you, and imposes monetary loss standards.

  5. #49
    Senior Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    This thread went a long ways, and I enjoyed all sides of all comments.

    I suppose the issue at hand usually does fall under the category of civil liability.

  6. #50
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    I served,Honorably,and am sickened by scum that claim to have been and done things that the brave men and women in uniform have,and I can usually shut them down rather quickly when they start spouting their nonsense,and will call them out publicly if need be.Now I have fought for the 1st amendment and fully support it,but where is the difference in this and impersonating a LEO,makes no sense to me,and it's not just civilians doing this,when we were in A-stan,we had Marines get very harsh discipline for displaying Recon badges on their BDU's,most were immediately transfered out of the unit attached to 1st Recon,they knew what would happen in the field if left there.
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  7. #51
    Ex Member Array oldrwizr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotus222 View Post
    I'm not sure how this is any different than lying about being professionally licensed, a doctor, active military, or LEO. This is absurd and a slap in the face to veterans and soldiers in arms, everywhere.
    Would you rather have your neighbor tell you he was a big war hero or your mailman remove your spleen? Slight difference there.

    Yes, these guys are POS's but what do you have against the Constitution? (freedom of speech in this case)

  8. #52
    Member Array Lyndo's Avatar
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    Unfortunately this ruling is probably the right one, despicable as it may be if lying was a crime we would probably all be in trouble. My ex wife still thinks Emerson knives cost 50 bucks, Glocks cost 200, and that I have never sat foot in a strip club. Now my military record is not something I care to embellish, but as long as there is no fraud involved prosecuting others for doing is a pretty serious violation of the first amendment. There are many things that are protected that I find sickening like rap songs about killing cops, but we are a free society and in that we have to take the good with the bad.
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  9. #53
    Senior Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldrwizr View Post
    Would you rather have your neighbor tell you he was a big war hero or your mailman remove your spleen? Slight difference there.

    Yes, these guys are POS's but what do you have against the Constitution? (freedom of speech in this case)
    Well, you missed my response by 2 little posts.

    Initially I was thinking more along the lines of benefits and monetary gains associated with lying about service history. The more I have thought about it, the more that I see it can and should be resolved in civil courts. Then again, I suppose the same should go for impersonating a Doctor and, as you said, unprofessionally removing a persons spleen. Yes, these are two extremes, but I don't recognize the difference other than the repercussions of the actions at hand - lying aside.

  10. #54
    Member Array Goldstar225's Avatar
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    I find it to be a sad state of affairs when our high court says that there is a constitutional right to lie.......

  11. #55
    Member Array gobbly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotus222 View Post
    Well, you missed my response by 2 little posts.

    Initially I was thinking more along the lines of benefits and monetary gains associated with lying about service history. The more I have thought about it, the more that I see it can and should be resolved in civil courts. Then again, I suppose the same should go for impersonating a Doctor and, as you said, unprofessionally removing a persons spleen. Yes, these are two extremes, but I don't recognize the difference other than the repercussions of the actions at hand - lying aside.
    There are laws requiring you to be licensed to practice medicine. Plain and simple. There are no laws requiring you to hold military honors, not for a civilian. But besides that, the law against practicing medicine without a license is just that, it's not a law against lying about having a medical license. Part of freedom of speech is being able to lie. A doctor performing surgery is not speech.
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  12. #56
    Distinguished Member Array Stetson's Avatar
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    What happen to the Cheif Justice ? He put health insurance on the same vein as taxes when he voted with the liberals !!! I feel violated !

  13. #57
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldstar225 View Post
    I find it to be a sad state of affairs when our high court says that there is a constitutional right to lie.......
    You would prefer that the Government kept a tighter control over what citizens say?

    Michael

  14. #58
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldstar225 View Post
    I find it to be a sad state of affairs when our high court says that there is a constitutional right to lie.......
    SCOTUS is simply acknowledging that the People knew their right to speak without muzzling existed. At one time, at least, they knew. Those who deem they've been defrauded or libeled still have legitimate recourse.
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  15. #59
    Senior Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gobbly View Post
    There are laws requiring you to be licensed to practice medicine. Plain and simple. There are no laws requiring you to hold military honors, not for a civilian. But besides that, the law against practicing medicine without a license is just that, it's not a law against lying about having a medical license. Part of freedom of speech is being able to lie. A doctor performing surgery is not speech.
    Right. I was agreeing with this statement.

  16. #60
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    As much as I detest posers, I appreciate a ruling that constrains our government from further attempts to regulate morality.

    Besides they are easy for vets to pick out, and we know how to take care of our own.
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