Stolen Valor Act is Struck Down by Supreme Court

This is a discussion on Stolen Valor Act is Struck Down by Supreme Court within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; IMHO, it was the correct ruling for the right reason - in this country we value freedom from censorship more than we value freedom from ...

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  1. #61
    Senior Member Array bklynboy's Avatar
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    IMHO, it was the correct ruling for the right reason - in this country we value freedom from censorship more than we value freedom from liars.
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  3. #62
    Member Array Goldstar225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    You would prefer that the Government kept a tighter control over what citizens say?

    Michael
    No, it's just that I strongly feel that lying should not be recognized as a right. Obviously others don't have the same standards about lying.

  4. #63
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldstar225 View Post
    No, it's just that I strongly feel that lying should not be recognized as a right. Obviously others don't have the same standards about lying.
    Material loss still is what it is. Statutes covering libel, slander, fraud and the like have been on the books for a long time. Claims of lying and pressing for charges and recompense still can be pursued. IF loss can be shown then people have such standing. And the honorable will still think of liars as they deserve to be thought of when outed for their deceit. None of that changes.
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  5. #64
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mlr1m
    You would prefer that the Government kept a tighter control over what citizens say?

    Michael
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldstar225 View Post
    No, it's just that I strongly feel that lying should not be recognized as a right. Obviously others don't have the same standards about lying.
    Its either an individual right or its within the governments power to control it. You have to pick one.

    Michael

  6. #65
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    Thumbs up WOW!

    Veteran convicted under Stolen Valor Act doesn't want his record cleared | Fort Worth | ...

    Veteran convicted under Stolen Valor Act doesn't want his record cleared Posted Friday, Jul. 13, 2012

    By Chris Vaughn
    cvaughn@star-telegram.com

    SNIP

    Richard David McClanahan served 30 months in federal prison for his lies, a lengthy penalty imposed because he also lied about his income to buy a pickup from a dealership. Now living in Fort Worth, the 34-year-old ex-convict has a chance to have at least part of his conviction overturned after the Supreme Court's decision.

    But McClanahan said he has no interest in clearing his record.

    "I have no desire to have my record expunged," he said. "I'm not the victim here. The law was put into place for a very good reason.

    "I understand the legal reasons why it was overturned and have no doubt that it was the legitimate decision for the Supreme Court. But I respectfully disagree with the court's decision. I wish the law had remained to prevent people like me from making absurd statements."

    SNIP


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  7. #66
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    That is pretty amazing. Good for him, to take such a stand. If only he'd had that sort of honor at the time he'd made the claims. Apparently his folks (or attorney) taught him something.

    Still ...

    Quote Originally Posted by From article: Doesn't want his record cleared
    "I wish the law had remained to prevent people like me from making absurd statements."
    As with the small part of people with defensive firearms who believe having a weapon means they'll not suffer crime, this guy's mistaken if he believes a law's going to keep lies and inflated claims from being made by people. As with most other dishonorable actions, about the only thing that stops some people is (a) honor they exhibit and (b) diligence and circumspection by those relying on such claims.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    That is pretty amazing. Good for him, to take such a stand. If only he'd had that sort of honor at the time he'd made the claims. Apparently his folks (or attorney) taught him something.
    For the record, (for those who didn't read the article) he was not the POS that brought the case that went to the SCOTUS.

    He was convicted in a separate case. Could have been 30 months in federal slammer for his lies taught him something.
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    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  9. #68
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    We could rewrite the law and call it a tax then it would be good to go.
    Pass your self off as a LEO you in jail pass your self off as a service member no problem, America we blown it.

  10. #69
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    We could rewrite the law and call it a tax then it would be good to go.
    Pass your self off as a LEO you in jail pass your self off as a service member no problem, America we blown it.
    I disagree. If you are passing yourself off as a LEO and trying to act as a LEO (either for nefarious reasons or as a want to be) then you are endangering public safety. If you are passing yourself off as a service member or trying to embellish a what you did in the military it does no arm to public safety.

    Is it disgusting? Of course. Is it a crime? No.

    I am well past worrying about what others say about themselves. As far as the stolen valor part it sucks and if caught the punishment of public humiliation is suffice in my book.

    Look, to be blunt, there are many that have legitimate orders for Bronze Stars and Air Medals. But during Desert Storm and forward from that point depending what unit you were in they were giving out those medals like candy. That in of itself is a crime for all the leaders who were complicit with it. I know of dozens that IMO should never have had a Bronze Star or Air Medal. But they are "legitamate heros" and are the first ones to line up at the DMV for the Bronze Star Plates or Air Medal plates.

    I know this did not come across the way I wanted it to and in no way is meant to demean anyone's service. Just bringing up the point that many (some) have medals that are really not earned. And it is not their fault...the fault of idiot leaders who have watered down the award process over the years.
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  11. #70
    Senior Member Array Inspector71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I disagree. If you are passing yourself off as a LEO and trying to act as a LEO (either for nefarious reasons or as a want to be) then you are endangering public safety. If you are passing yourself off as a service member or trying to embellish a what you did in the military it does no arm to public safety.

    Is it disgusting? Of course. Is it a crime? No.

    I am well past worrying about what others say about themselves. As far as the stolen valor part it sucks and if caught the punishment of public humiliation is suffice in my book.

    Look, to be blunt, there are many that have legitimate orders for Bronze Stars and Air Medals. But during Desert Storm and forward from that point depending what unit you were in they were giving out those medals like candy. That in of itself is a crime for all the leaders who were complicit with it. I know of dozens that IMO should never have had a Bronze Star or Air Medal. But they are "legitamate heros" and are the first ones to line up at the DMV for the Bronze Star Plates or Air Medal plates.

    I know this did not come across the way I wanted it to and in no way is meant to demean anyone's service. Just bringing up the point that many (some) have medals that are really not earned. And it is not their fault...the fault of idiot leaders who have watered down the award process over the years.
    So, according to you, the members down at my post who have been awarded the Bronze Star didn't really earn them? Interesting.
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  12. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I disagree. If you are passing yourself off as a LEO and trying to act as a LEO (either for nefarious reasons or as a want to be) then you are endangering public safety. If you are passing yourself off as a service member or trying to embellish a what you did in the military it does no arm to public safety.

    Is it disgusting? Of course. Is it a crime? No.

    I am well past worrying about what others say about themselves. As far as the stolen valor part it sucks and if caught the punishment of public humiliation is suffice in my book.

    Look, to be blunt, there are many that have legitimate orders for Bronze Stars and Air Medals. But during Desert Storm and forward from that point depending what unit you were in they were giving out those medals like candy. That in of itself is a crime for all the leaders who were complicit with it. I know of dozens that IMO should never have had a Bronze Star or Air Medal. But they are "legitamate heros" and are the first ones to line up at the DMV for the Bronze Star Plates or Air Medal plates.

    I know this did not come across the way I wanted it to and in no way is meant to demean anyone's service. Just bringing up the point that many (some) have medals that are really not earned. And it is not their fault...the fault of idiot leaders who have watered down the award process over the years.
    Not a funny topic but you reminded me of a funny story. I went in to get finger printed in VA when I was applying for my permit back in 2001 or so. I had to go to my local County Sheriff's office. VA had a requirement for training and I had to produce my DD214 with my pistol qual on it.

    The sheriff was not very friendly during the process since CC was new(ish) at the time. Then I gave him my DD214 and he suddenly got real friendly. He looked at me funny and started to work faster. I really didn't think much about it.

    After the paperwork was done and I started to leave he finally asked the big question. He asked me what I did in the Navy to earn a Bronze Star. Since I didn't earn one I was a bit surprised. So I whipped out my DD214 and looked at it with him.

    In my medals section it lists the SW Asia Service Medal with "Bronze Star Cluster" for having deployed to the Gulf twice. I thought it was funny and after a full explanation he did too.
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  13. #72
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    Well can't say the decision is a surprise. On a related note, remind me later to tell you how I earned my Medal of Honor in Viet...uh, Grenada.

  14. #73
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inspector71 View Post
    So, according to you, the members down at my post who have been awarded the Bronze Star didn't really earn them? Interesting.
    Don't take it personally dude. If you or someone you know deserves it great. How long you been in? Did I say ALL. I think not. I am talking about MY experience and MY observations form some of the units I have been in. Did I say anything about a particular person? Nope. But I know an aviation MI unit that in Desert Storm almost every SSG and above was given or was put in for an Air Medal or Bronze Star.
    If your experience is different then that is great. Please read my post again if you need to. But if you are trying to tell me every single award given in the army is justified then we have been intwo different armies. Some units give out awards more so than others. I don;t really mind if you disagree.

  15. #74
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inspector71 View Post
    So, according to you, the members down at my post who have been awarded the Bronze Star didn't really earn them? Interesting.
    Strange, I did not see anything in his post that would lead one to that conclusion.

    Michael
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  16. #75
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Strange, I did not see anything in his post that would lead one to that conclusion.

    Michael
    It's OK dude. I expected comments like that.

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